Yes will definitely be replacing the crank seals, although I have to say they OEM's aren't easy to find but I've ordered the small one (left?) from CMS. WeBike (Japan) has the T2 Racing version of the right hand seal but I'm having a hard time committing to $40 shipping for an $18 part.


restoring a motorbike is not all glamorous....stripping the front discs of deteriorated gold paint in the corner of the yard where the dog poops.



cleaned up wheels to try and determine whether I need them re-powder coated or not. If so going to have to remove bearings and tires.....think I will have to....there are some scratches and in some areas it's so thin you can see the dark metal underneath....new bright white wheels will really set off the bike.


not too much carbon build up


re-visiting the intake question: is it normal for the right hand to have these very rough cast 'wings' whereas the left hand has nothing?

On the rear shock:

$150 plus cost or replating parts and repainting spring to restore original and shipping (Performance Engineering)
$400 YSS Mono Line from Webike [url]https://japan.webike.net/ps/#!p.m=186&p.c=1083&p.sk=1[/url]
$440 Hagon on Ebay [url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/143736471118?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=143736471118&targetid=1071561546897&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9013184&poi=&campaignid=11614528973&mkgroupid=114836828842&rlsatarget=pla-1071561546897&abcId=9300457&merchantid=101704550&gclid=CjwKCAjwpKCDBhBPEiwAFgBzj4wtFQZ8cPghEpDr8LfuywoUzrHtVOMqKlYUR4CGlML1lqCsYX_DBRoCn4gQAvD_BwE
M61023[/url]


Last edited by Hudtm60 on Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

Castings are typical in the mc16 and mc18. The later mc21 and mc28 are less pronounced. When you spit the case you can use a rotorary tool with a sand drum to smooth all the rough spots.

As for rear shock, the stock is fine but the spring is for a 120 lb kid. So when I was doing the cost trades I just got a Nitron with a spring to take into account my 180 lbs plus leathers. Had I delayed the purchase I might have gotten an Ohlins, but overall I'm very happy with the Nitron. Obviously this makes it non OEM.

Thanks for the feedback Eric. Thinking on the shock...

I connected with Millenium Tech. My first contact said they don't repair such cracks anymore. He said they used to weld and plate over, but the cracks would always come back and that was that.

I went back and looked at the website...they have a section called "Unobtanium Cylinder Services" https://www.millennium-tech.net/serviceInfo.php?id=36 that offers repair for irreplaceable parts. Wait a minute- that's what I have. I located the gentleman in charge of that department, Rod Heaton, and he was very helpful. He confirmed he fixes exhaust bridges all the time...in fact he said he has done at least 30 in the last month. He also said, after viewing my photos, he could tidy up the pre-ignition damage in the heads. I'm stoked about all of that- but it's not cheap....and an interesting comparison to the 300 option

Option #1 Repair Existing OEM Cylinders
$ 860 for repair and plate both cylinders and repair cylinder heads @ Millenium includes approx $100 shipping (both ways)
$ 389 for 2 OEM piston sets from Tyga
$ 92 Athena Gasket set from Wemoto
$ 867 Tyga Exhausts
$ 160 2 x shorty cans
$ 112 Tyga Shipping
$ 2480 Total

Option #2: Install Tyga 300 Kit
$1502 Big Bore Kit.
$ 867 Tyga Exhausts
$ 160 2 x shorty cans
$ 142 Shipping
$2671 Total

Difference: about $200.

Reality Check: I probably don't need the Tyga exhausts for Option#1 and instead could use the Ethos ones that came with the bike- but they are very unknown to me- but using them on Option #1 would make it about a grand cheaper.

Hmmmm.

Why not use the ethos pipes with the 300 kit? Yes there is an adaptor that Tyga provides because you no longer use the crush gaskets. I suspect a fabricator could make something up for you.

Ps....I'm good at spending my money and others

Don't forget the import duty & VAT (or the Canadian equivalent).
_________________
Andy.
NSR-WORLD.COM

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Reality prevailed and I'm taking the repair path and ordered Top End Rebuild Kit for Cylinders C yesterday....http://tyga-performance.com/product_info.php?products_id=2334 along with OEM wheel bearings and a carbon meter cover to obscure the deteriorated foam.

Other purchases made on Yahoo!Japan via jauce.com yesterday...shipping and minimal bank charges to be added but even so still good prices for unobtainable OEM equipment...


OEM chainguard...$10.


great set of mirrors $18...and yes I checked the actual mirrors are still in place.


toolkit...$55...too much money but I love having original tool kits.

Not that it's important, but 2J mirrors are rectangular.
The arms seem to split as they age.
https://www.jauce.com/auction/q348670504
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Why do things simply when you can complicate them

I found the T2 crank seals to be excellent. Maybe even better than genuine Honda. If you're getting your crank rebuild at Performance Engineering, they should be able to supply seals as well
_________________
Why do things simply when you can complicate them

Nothing against Performance Engineering, but shipping for him will be costly from US to UK. CrankWorks in Arizona rebuilt my new crank for me...because I wanted it welded and put in a set of ceramic bearings I had made. Overkill...yes.

They had a quick turn around and got it true to within a thousandth.

Interesting-about CrankWorks. Since I had the bike running for a minute or two I know my crank it's not especially damaged but I would love it to be at it's best.

PE said they would like pictures of my crank before they would commit to working on it- I think it's because two kinds of cranks were installed in the MC18 and they need to know which one, but I haven't got to splitting the cases yet. Paul @ Tyga said that the earlier later MC18 cranks share bearings with the MC21 and MC28 which they sell.

I contacted PJME of Wolverhampton today. I purchased a crank from them for my RD350LC, it's the smoothest running bike I have right now, but they won't do it because they are sure the parts are unavailable.

Not sure which crank I have but if it's an early one PJME recommended Chris Applebee Engineering who can recondition the parts already in the crank....hmm. http://www.applebee.co.uk/

I'm basically looking for anyone familiar with the NSR crankshaft...but might reach out to CrankWorks as you are clearly happy the their work.

On the shock PE came back with replating the shock body and fixings is £75.00, recoating the main spring in a flexi proof paint is £45.00, so with the rebuild of £106 and a guessimate of shipping of £50 for both ways brings it to £276/$380 and into the realms of what a new Hagon would cost.

those other mirrors look great too! I didn't realize my should be rectangular...

Phil fil250 put a YSS rear shock on his MC18 5K. Seems to be pretty good. It has a red spring like OEM and has rebound & preload. Hagon shocks are good, but I think they only supply with a black spring now
_________________
Why do things simply when you can complicate them

Hudtm60 wrote:
PE said they would like pictures of my crank before they would commit to working on it- I think it's because two kinds of cranks were installed in the MC18 and they need to know which one, but I haven't got to splitting the cases yet. Paul @ Tyga said that the earlier later MC18 cranks share bearings with the MC21 and MC28 which they sell.

I contacted PJME of Wolverhampton today. I purchased a crank from them for my RD350LC, it's the smoothest running bike I have right now, but they won't do it because they are sure the parts are unavailable.

Not sure which crank I have but if it's an early one PJME recommended Chris Applebee Engineering who can recondition the parts already in the crank....hmm. http://www.applebee.co.uk/

There's nothing that can be reconditioned. If anything [other than the thrust washers] is beyond tolerance, the crank is scrap. Any pitting on either of the big-end pins, and the crank is scrap. Any pitting or wear on conrod big-eng/small-end bearing face, or thrust washer faces, and the rod(s) will need replacing. OEM rods are not available for purchase, although I believe there may be an aftermarket alternative available now.* The NSR crank is extremely compact; consequently the big end pins are integral to the crankwheels, and therefore cannot be pressed out and replaced as you can do with many other 2-strokes. It was designed as a consumable item, which was fine at the time, but now MC16 and MC18 cranks are discontinued, it's a bit of a bugger! GTPE ask for high quality, detailed photos from potential clients from abroad, to try and mitigate unnecessary costs as much as possible. If damage can be seen or anything is remotely questionable, they will advise that it's probably cost prohibitive to send them the crank.

*GTPE will only use OEM/genuine Honda parts for the NSRs. They won't use Mitaka pistons, aftermarket conrods, pattern gaskets etc. They're expensive, but you're paying for one of the best in the business. I've heard PJME Yamaha and Kawasaki cranks are very good, and I've also heard good reports about Chris Applebee, however only GTPE solely specialise in Hondas. If I was going to take a Honda crank anywhere else in the UK, it would be to Andrew Sawford at St. Neots Motorcycles (Two Stroke GP Restorations on Facebook).

The 1988 R2/4J crank is similar to the MC16 (and RS250R NF5), with an independent centre seal. The R5/6K crank is similar to the MC21/MC28 crank, with a centre seal integrated into the centre main bearing. You already confirmed your engine cases are 1988 at the beginning of this thread. There's a small degree of interchangeability between 87 & 88, and 89~96, but it's not just a case of swapping cranks if you can only find the "wrong" replacement. Only the MC21 and MC28 cranks are truly interchangeable without any additional work.

All cranks use the same bearings, although the 87-88 use a different combination of bearings to the 89-96. (The 89-96 has a unique centre bearing. All main bearings these days are readily available.)

Finally, you won't find a more experience NSR crank builder in the UK than Steve at GTPE, but as Eric says, the cost can potentially be prohibitive, mainly down to shipping. It never stopped us doing cranks and full motors [while I was there] from literally all over the world though. We even did cranks and motors for Japan in the early days, although they are well catered for again now [10 years on].

As a side note, we found everything can be temporarily imported and then exported back to origin without taxes if documented properly, as it's a reconditioning/restoration service.
_________________
Andy.
NSR-WORLD.COM

Please keep all responses to Forum posts on the Forum so that others may benefit.

Please DO NOT PM me for technical advice. My time is precious, and you will probably receive a faster response on the Forum anyway.

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Thank you Andy. It's now, finally, brutally clear to me that my crankshaft may be a throwaway item and not only as unfixable as my first marriage but very good replacements are about as unobtainable as a safe, smooth running Kawasaki triple, possible but extremely rare. Nevertheless, I have to split the cases to put in new crank seals and will endeavor to take the very best pics I can to post here as well as send to GTPE for all to diagnose.

In the meantime, going to spend all day today packing and preparing:
-fasteners to go to the local platers
-subframe, etc to go to the local powdercoaters
-forks tubes to Philpots for re-chroming (however allen bolt head made of cheese at the bottom on one stanchion is causing a bit of an issue)
-barrels and pistons to Millenium

Lots of pictures to follow....