Hello everyone.
I´m currently ressurecting a really badly abandoned MC16 in Germany.
Previous owner already fitted TA21 carbs along with a PGM-II Ignition System.

Sadly both barrels will need a refurbishment as well.
For one they are two different barrels (front: one ring piston; rear: two ring piston)
Also the plating in the rear barrel is severely damaged.

I´m looking at atleast 400€ for replating (plating in germany is quite expensive) the rear cylinder and 100€ for honing the front one.
Additionally i would need to source 2 new pistons, which appears to be quite the pain as well. can´t find a decent offer anywhere.

What i did find is a 180ccm Malossi barrel, intended for the NSR 125.
Now the tinkerer in me started to wonder, if thoose would be able to be fitted on a NSR 250.

One of thoose barrels (inc. Piston, head, all gaskets) is about 450€.. so two of thoose sets would only be barely more expensive, than refurbishing the two old ones.

If any machining has to be done, that wouldn´t be a problem at all, since in own a lathe and a mill.
Also, i have some experience in making "strange Cylinders" fit onto other Engines (mainly Honda MTX 125 barrel onto Simson S51 Engine).

I just wondered, if anyone has done something similar, to my idea.

If it hasnt been done, feel free to give me some input, about what you guys think of the Idea.
What would have to be changed?.. (Crank strong enough, Clutch able to handle the Power..)
Or if the idea is completely useless. As i can´t even find a number on what power thoose 180 barrels are supposed to output on the 125.

Just feel free, to let me know your thoughts about this idea.

I just can´t get the thought of a NSR 360 out of my head.

Greetings from germany,
Elias.


Link to Kit: https://www.scooter-attack.com/de/kaufen/zylinder-malossi-181cc-alu-honda-nsr-crm-125-lc-77853?srsltid=AfmBOoqQAJMY-697SGQILCQmi49cRKCzfBgqCtNIEhxcB1DlSnP1maqa

I've read plenty on this forum about the challenges with using the NSR150 pistons for a 300. Loads of development has been done at Tyga. I seem to remember it put a strain on the big end bearings. It would be worth looking at how machining affects the cases. I also remember Andy's comments that it didn't make a significant increase in power. Another thought, I wonder if the size of the cylinders would need a certain volume in the crank cases?
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Last edited by RobH on Tue Nov 05, 2024 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

I certainly cannot offer any advice related to the Malossi barrel. I did do a little research for you. I checked the online parts manual for mc16 and it looks like the pistons all have 2 rings. So your single ring piston is likely from another bike or aftermarket. Maybe even from an RS250. Maybe someone smarter than me knows different. A few photos of subject parts and model year of bike or serial numbers might help.

There does appear to be several used mc16 cylinders for sale on ebay...looked in Italy and Australia, not US versions of ebay. All seem a bit rough. I did see one on yahoo auctions in Japan that looked a bit promising. It has piston too, but no rings. You can look at link below. Your budget may dictate decision on it.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/x1113812954

Having just had a cylinder replated, I would say I would not do it again. For the total time and money I spent I could have had a new one delivered sooner at about same cost.

As for the full blown Tyga 300 kit, I have it on my bike. The failures I've had were not tied to the kit...siezed once due to lack of 2T oil and second time due to broken float valve needle. I love the characteristics of the kit but it's not for everyone. I also run it hard without mercy, but now I will be using it less as I have a new track bike.


Regards,
Eric

Kreusslus wrote:Hello everyone.
I´m currently ressurecting a really badly abandoned MC16 in Germany.
Previous owner already fitted TA21 carbs along with a PGM-II Ignition System.

......
Elias.


Link to Kit: https://www.scooter-attack.com/de/kaufen/zylinder-malossi-181cc-alu-honda-nsr-crm-125-lc-77853?srsltid=AfmBOoqQAJMY-697SGQILCQmi49cRKCzfBgqCtNIEhxcB1DlSnP1maqa

Hi Kreusslus!
Can you help me? I need several photos of flywheel used with PGM-II. Can you take them for me?
I would like to see a marking on the flywheel.
I try to convert my MC16 to PGM-II ignition.
And I can't find information about PGM-II flywheel.

RobH wrote:
I've read plenty on this forum about the challenges with using the NSR150 pistons for a 300. Loads of development has been done at Tyga. I seem to remember it put a strain on the big end bearings. It would be worth looking at how machining affects the cases. I also remember Andy's comments that it didn't make a significant increase in power. Another thought, I wonder if the size of the cylinders would need a certain volume in the crank cases?

TYGA fixed the problems with the 300 kit some time go, but it took years of development by someone I consider to be quite possibly one of the most qualified NSR spanners outside of Japan. Indeed, his motors were actually protested by HRC a number of times in the Asia-Pacific championship!

It is true, that from what we've seen on the dyno, they don't make much more power than a 250, but do have heaps more bottom-end and mid-range. There is an increase in peak power, but it's more like 8-10%, not the 20% people seem to think will come from 20% increase in capacity. I would expect to see around 65rwhp from a "stock" 300 (maybe a little more with the VHM & Wiseco options included), but an extremely healthy increase in mid-range drive. 10% is nothing to be sniffed at though, of course. I would expect something similar from the Malossi kit. What you have to bear in mind is you're making the motor way "over-square", and the further you go, the less efficient it will become.

We haven't experience any bottom-end failures specific to the 300. All the (early) failures were top-end, but as I say, that seems to be fixed, partly due to the loan of NSR500V parts we sent over to Matt back around 2015. While a big-bore isn't my cup of tea (I much prefer wringing the neck of an HRC-spec 250), I wouldn't detract anyone from going that route these days.

What you do get from the 300 kit is brand new OEM Honda barrels, which is something definitely worth consideration, but the "standard" 300 pistons are not OEM Honda ART pistons. Again personally, I'd take OEM Honda plating over ANY replated alternative. Similar, to a point, can be said about "new" Malossi barrels, but I wouldn't put them anywhere near the quality of OEM Honda. For example, we contacted Aprilia GP (the proper Aprilia!) about replating NSR500 barrels, and even they said nothing can come close to OEM Honda, and would rather dress a worn port/bore and reuse it than replate it, if we could get away with it! I don't expect Aprilia GP would go to Malossi to get barrels plated, if you see where I'm going...?!

I'd be lying if I said the Malossi 180 kit had never been considered before, but way back in the early days, when NSR's were only in black and white, genuine barrels were aplenty and relatively cheap, so I don't recall anyone going that route. In fact, when I first met Matt back around Y2K, I assumed the NSR300 leant against the back wall in TYGA's lockup at Bira circuit was fitted with Malossi barrels. It was only later that he explained it was NSR150SP barrels. I still feel a semblance of guilt getting him to fire it back up and develop it, as it cost him years of his life to get right, and I was very vocal about its shortcomings as I thought it went into "production" far too soon. I'm lucky... some may question "lucky" he still talks to me!

It will be interesting to see if you go the Malossi route. I think your first hurdle is going to be the pistons though. Pretty sure the NSR125 piston has a 16mm gudgeon pin....
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first of all thank you andy for your detailled answer.

I personally would prefer a good set of 250 barrels as well. but i just can´t seem to find something useable anywhere here in germany.

for that matter the 300 kit is somewhat expensive for my taste, allthough way more experience is in that, im sure (compared to the malossi barrel)

I would just like to try and build something different, something, you don´t see everyday. so i´m propably going to order the malossi kit.
As for the Pistons, that shouldn´t be a problem, since i can simply use NSR 125 small end bearings. Thoose are of the same outer diameter and width, as nsr 250 ones, but they fit the 16mm wristpin.


Iron Angel, i did send you a PM. Just let me know, what specific pictures you want and i will try to send them to you.

I am sure there are a number of us here that will be interested to see how you get on. Please keep us updated with your progress.
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Andy.
NSR-WORLD.COM

Please keep all responses to Forum posts on the Forum so that others may benefit.

Please DO NOT PM me for technical advice. My time is precious, and you will probably receive a faster response on the Forum anyway.

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