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HRC PGM3


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sparky

 
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HRC PGM3

Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:43 am » Post: #1 » Download Post

was there a HRC version?
http://cgi.ebay.com/NSR-250-MC21-HRC-Racing-PGMIII_W0QQitemZ8074537549QQcategoryZ10460QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Dave Ett
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Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:50 am » Post: #2 » Download Post

Yes there was, and his description is accurate. Rare as Hens teeth!
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nsr Moggy

 
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Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:47 am » Post: #3 » Download Post

would using this involve undoing the wiring splice for the orange and blue wire?

As you could let it know what gear it's in as this I imagen is a delimited box, but would the orange and blue wire still require power?
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fontyyy

 
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Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:50 am » Post: #4 » Download Post

Surely this is for leaded fuel (like the 010 card for the '28 ) and thus absolutely useless unless you fancy buying proper leaded fuel?

and moggy, where are you?
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j911brick

 
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Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:22 pm » Post: #5 » Download Post

How can you tell its the real deal? It says high octain fuel, but it doesn't say how high?
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Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:27 pm » Post: #6 » Download Post

Mostly because prople like Andy and Matt have ferreted out snippets of info over the years, and the gen on the HRC unit is that it is designed for race fuels. I have the HRC inline unit, and it advances the ignition as well as delimiting the restrictor, but as far as I know it's ok to use on normal fuel (it has worked fine for me, though I do always run on Super plus or Ultimate. The HRC ig unit is the next step on from what I have.
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Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:35 pm » Post: #7 » Download Post

Dave Ett wrote: and the gen on the HRC unit is .


What do you mean by "gen"?
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Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:31 pm » Post: #8 » Download Post

Er, sorry. Bit of forces speak! Means genuine, as in 'the information is genuine'.

"So the gen is we're tits up on sticks in the shed?"


Means the aircraft is broken, and has been put in the hanger on jacks...
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j911brick

 
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Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:25 pm » Post: #9 » Download Post

Dave Ett wrote:Er, sorry. Bit of forces speak! Means genuine, as in 'the information is genuine'.

"So the gen is we're tits up on sticks in the shed?"


Means the aircraft is broken, and has been put in the hanger on jacks...


If you say so...

I bought the PGM, but I'm not convinced its the real deal (HRC). I talked with my supplier and he said there is no listing for a special HRC PGMIII. He also said if it was HRC it would not say Honda on it. In any case the price was OK as long as its a working PGMIII.
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Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:03 pm » Post: #10 » Download Post

Is he an HRC specialist kinda guy? Bearing in mind the NSR was never exported, I expect there's loads of stuff related to it that dealers don't know about.

Maybe someone with the HRC manual can shed some light?
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j911brick

 
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Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:34 pm » Post: #11 » Download Post

I think the seller may know his stuff. He had other Tz/TZR parts for sale. My supplier saud he looked in the HRC book and didn't see it.
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Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:15 am » Post: #12 » Download Post

j911brick wrote:
If you say so...

I bought the PGM, but I'm not convinced its the real deal (HRC). I talked with my supplier and he said there is no listing for a special HRC PGMIII. He also said if it was HRC it would not say Honda on it. In any case the price was OK as long as its a working PGMIII.

Your supplier is wrong then.

Best you get one that knows what he's talking about.
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j911brick

 
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Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:29 am » Post: #13 » Download Post

So Andy, what do you know about it your not telling?

I asked the seller and this is the reply:


Good evening,

In 1996, there was a change of race regulation all MFJ races ( prohibity of leaded fuel ), and the regulation changed ranking mapping in all Japanese championships.

http://www.mfj.or.jp/

Unleaded fuel regulation finished invincible legend of MC21 in class SP250, as the basic engine structure is based on MC16 that was produced for unleaded fuel. Meanwhile HRC started to struggle the problem, and finally in 1997, they released PGM3 for unleaded fuel. If compare with standard, biggest difference is of course ignition timing - However most important thing is anti-detonation program, that is not in standard PGM3. Aha, also important thing, the CDI cut off speedo restrictor.

http://www.mugimaru.com/pgmyunitto-k1.htm

- Still a famous race shop in Tokyo has stock of the CDI, if you need spare.

http://www.honda.co.jp/HRC/

- Futher questions please ask in HRC, just need circuit license to ask, so.

As far as I have looked after my friend's machine - If octane level is over 101, detonation counter just work on long straight, however 98 octane had had more or less problem of detonation. Please note that there is difference between European octane index and USA octane index ( USA- Anti knock index, Europe - Resarch octane index ), European 101 octane is not the same of USA 101 octane.

And reply for your question :

As shown on the picture, CI605E is the code of the unleaded PGM3.
And the black sealing on front is written :

First line - Caution

second and third line - Do not make hole.

fourth line and fifth line - Do not bend, do not add shock.

sixth and seventh line - Do not leave under the sun, do not leave in high temparature place.

Eith line ( in box ) - Can not be used on public roads

last line : Honda racing co. ltd

As my conclusion, probably you have older catalogue of HRC ( or some shop made ), as far as I know since 1997, racing PGM3 is on HRC catalogue.

Regards,
Tom
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Matt@TYGA
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Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:59 am » Post: #14 » Download Post

HRC did indeed make two HRC PGMIII units. One for pump fuel (30400-NKD-700) and one for avgas (30400-NKD-840).

I've not had the pleasure but I've had info from the HRC men that "much power coming, but very easy broken". Read that how you want.

Another good indicator of something trick is the code. CI605E is definitely not a production ECU number. CI605 and CI605B yes, but not E.

These boxes are still available (last time I checked) but they're bloody expensive! No idea how much you paid for the box, but I reckon you got a good deal.

He mentions something about detonation control. This may be the same as NSR250 F3 PGMII and also RS250 PGMII, in which case you can clip wires to retard the ignition timing. The Yamaha TZR250SPR SP kit CDI also has this function for the choice between avgas and pump fuel.

The MC18 PGMII also seem to have the same wire that's hidden in the F3 box, but when clipped it seemed to make no difference in my test.
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j911brick

 
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Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:29 am » Post: #15 » Download Post

Thanks Matt. I remember seeing something about detonation control in a RS250 manual. Do you know how it works? Does it have a special sensor?
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