Lifted from an article by Julian Ryder at Motegi
Saturday, September 17, 2005

"The MSMA met on Thursday and decided the future of the 125 and 250 classes at GPs from now to 2015. The 125s will stay unchanged, as will 250s until the end of 2012. The 250 two-strokes will then be joined by 400cc four-stroke twins for two years of cohabitation before the class becomes all four-stroke in 2015. These regs will be ratified in 2008, by which time MotoGP will have an 800cc limit."

The 800cc limit I understand and am forced to agree with, the bikes have got to be slowed down in some way before people start to get really hurt a lot, yes we all know they go just as fast 2 years later but that hardly merits no action. The plan for the future also indicates that 800cc is forseen as staying for quite a while.

2012 is quite a long way off, who knows how fast the diesels will be going by then. The MotoGP bikes destroyed any 500 2 stroke hopes first time out.
I had thought at the time that the (first MotoGP) title would either go to Max (on the Yam M1, proven in line 4 technology that Checa was using in tests to absolutely devastate race times) or Kato on the v4 NSR. I never thought Honda could get the RCV211 on the pace quick enough and believed it to be another oval piston style failure. How wrong I was.

That it is 400cc v-twin is quite interesting, will they be quick enough to give a 250 a race?
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400cc v-twins huh? Sounds like it's tailored for Aprilia!

400cc twins will be on the pace easily... A friend built a parallel twin 500cc for karting for his Masters and hot 115hp out of it. Then there's the other factor that the 4 will be easier to ride with a silly flat girly power delivery the 250's stamd no hope.

Fontyyy I think that had there been any top established riders left on 500's at the time they wouldn't have had it so easy... Just look back to Jacque and Barros (both not 'top' class IMHO) at whatever race it was that they took each other out while leading and Katoh at Jerez in 2002, who was all over Rossi apart from straight bits when he lost about a mile!

It's always glossed over by the press unfortunatley that the diesels have TWICE the capacity. They carry on like their comparing like for like. The 4's aren't twice as fast... And no one talks of tyres. I mean, a 500 on the rubber used now, designed specifically for a 500 would no doubt be 4 seconds faster than it was at the same track it last raced at when they were still around. Don't forget Jezza manhandled the Proton V3 around Philip Island about a second faster than an NSR if my terrible memory serves me correctly So it's reasonable to conclude than an update 500 on 2005 tyres would be pretty quick. Not Diesel quick, but not 5 seconds slower.
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NSR300R - Why did i ever have a 250...

Question though. Will these 400cc bikes be production based or specials? I was thinking Aprilia because of the 450cc V-twin they're going to be coming out with in the RS250 chassis but if it's not going to be production based...........?

maxim wrote:
Just look back to Jacque and Barros (both not 'top' class IMHO) at whatever race it was that they took each other out while leading

but i think you are forgetting that that was the only race of the whole year where a 500 looked like winning, the rest of the season they were nowhere near the pace.
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Don wrote:Question though. Will these 400cc bikes be production based or specials?

Personally I'd like them to be prototypes like the GP class, makes it that little more trick! We'll probably see then Manufactures start to bring out more 400(ish)cc sports bikes too. Which means more for us to play with on the roads!

The 400 will have to be prototypes, its in the FIM rules. Remember the WCM/R1 cylinder head fiasco?

I also heard the as well as the Aprilia 450 rs combo, Kawasaki is working on a 450 but a parrallel twin. There are a few companys making some great 500 twins one called Maxsym, theres is making 90bhp and spins to 11k, size isnt an issue because they have been fitted to motarded YZ450 frames for testing.

As for boring power deliverys rubbish, ride a modern four stroke crosser, 12k with a kick, and just put a nasty camshaft in a r1 then you get your power band.

I have had 5 21's an rg500 and so on and like two strokes but if they can make a reliable (remeber factory warrenties!!) 450 or 500 twin thats small as an RS and has some mojo and meets emisions then great bring it on.
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Farting is funny

The trouble is they won't... I'd love to be surprised, but look at how road biased the 600's and 1000's are compared to say, an OW01/R7. I'm not talking about performance only, but I really don't think any of the big 4 would bring out such a small (as in size) class of bike for the road again, like the MC21/28, 3XV, VJ23 etc.
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NSR300R - Why did i ever have a 250...

I'm inclined to agree unless there is a big change in what people want, Monkey just look at the grief we got on gaybike for having the nerve to claim a sorted NSR was a little sharper than an R6.

But you never know, the car market has woken up a bit, plenty of manufacturers make small usable fun sports cars now, it could happen.
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As most of you know i have a very soft spot for trick four strokes, ride an R7 that makes 160-165bhp at 15,000, wont pull away unless your doing 3k and will fouls plus quicker than any NSR could and say they are easy to ride.

Fontyyy will tell you even trying to get my RC outta my drive isnt easy. A four stroke with some mojo can hit and kick as well as alot of things out there.

Im glad they are keeping 250's as 2 stokes because i think GP should be 2 stoke, or what ever is faster. If it comes to the point where they can get 250 4's going as fast or faster than a 250 stroker then they shoud change.

Remember when the 500's were being killed off, the 750 super bikes were fast enough to get on to the second row of most 500 GP's and they werent double the size, the gap had been closing very fast for a few years.

I dont think that making GP 990 was fair for this very reason, 990 was always going to beat the 500 strokes if the 750's were so close to doing it anyway.

Hell, the NR project might not of been an amazing susscess but even in the late 70' and early 80's it still managed to beat some 500 two stokes and it was the same size!

While everyone is still making scooters we dont have to worry though, they will keep making 2t oil for us
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If I have to take the carbs off once more...

You're missing the point though... 4-strokes are crap!

And also that at the top of any motorsport, I want to see the best riders/drivers, piloting something which is a complete bastard to control... They understand the risk and I'm sure 99% of riders would rather get on an RCV than a 110kg 1990/91 NSR with 90 degree firing order. To me it's not about going and getting lap records, but watching someone with enough skill to control their machine. Look at Corser on a 500, or Walker on an NSR even, both outstanding riders with Diesels. Heck, given no choice, I'd even pick riding an RCV over any 500!

Go and watch an F1 race from the late 80's when they could call on 1400bhp in qualifying. Prost used to say his TAG would spin up in 6th at over 180mph at Hockenheim... And that's in the dry! Now they've got traction everything.

Don't take it the wrong way I'm just still pissed that bore-strokes have taken over. I know it's closer racing than ever... Well from 3rd or 4th position down anyway, but personally I'd rather watch Rossi, Biaggi et al tread the very fine line that was riding the 500.

What's intersting is that from previous posts on here, there are companies out there that claim 2-strokes can be made substantially cleaner running than fours, while retaining their characteristics, so why is no one pursueing this?
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NSR300R - Why did i ever have a 250...

What's intersting is that from previous posts on here, there are companies out there that claim 2-strokes can be made substantially cleaner running than fours, while retaining their characteristics, so why is no one pursueing this?

lol cos they are crap?

maxim wrote:I'm sure 99% of riders would rather get on an RCV than a 110kg 1990/91 NSR with 90 degree firing order.

Yeah, so would I although Honda threw the 90* engine in the bin in '88, the 1990 NSR was rubbish, brakes that leaked and didn't work anyway, it took for Doohan to have a crash at near 300kph before Honda changed them. A single crank that caused massive understeer and tyres that fell to bits. Hence it's in Bike mags worst handling bikes ever list.
Fast forward to 1999 and Mick has go it soooo rideable that come his forced retirement Alex Criville can beat the YZR500 riding Max Biaggi.
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StephenRC45 wrote:

What's intersting is that from previous posts on here, there are companies out there that claim 2-strokes can be made substantially cleaner running than fours, while retaining their characteristics, so why is no one pursueing this?

lol cos they are crap?

+

LMAO
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CBR400 - track
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