Does any of the forum members have any first hand experience of this upgrade kit?. From what it shows on the Tyga site - it looks fairly impressive - (cost aside).
I spoke to Apex Leisure re tuning mods - and was warned against using this kit. They recon'd they could get nearly 70HP out of a tuned 250 without having to go to 300cc - and that most users of the kit had ended up with seizures, etc.
Not trying to dis anyone here - just trying to find out if this mod is one that I should consider (when I get some cash in the door!).
In my experience a good 250 and a stock 300 make very similar peak power, but in very different ways.
If you ride a 250 hard, then the 300 kit isn't for you, not unless you get inside it or order a Matt Patterson special, but that's going to cost you considerably more than a standard kit.
If however, you ride the 250 at 3/4 - 4/5, then the 300 will seem a vast improvement as it makes heaps more torque right up from the very bottom and through the mid-range.
A day on the dyno with an MC21/300 (with race pipes, HRC jet kit, HRC wiring kit, lightened flywheel etc.) just yesterday showed some very, er, interesting results!
I am personally yet to ride a 300 that I am truely impressed with compared to a well sorted 250, and last time I rode Matt's it was on a dusty jungle road in the middle of the night whilst swerving in and out of rabid dogs - hardly the best road test! I've not ridden Matt's latest evolution of the kit, which is apparently something a bit more special! Rumour has it that something even more spectacular is under development at the moment, so we'll have to wait and see.
I will say though, a 70ish hp 250 will be much harder to ride quickly than a 70ish hp 300, but an awful lot more rewarding - in my opinion. _________________ Andy.
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I've had/have both 250 and 300 on both '18 and '21. I havn't had what can be called the best results with the 300 (7 seizures in less than 12 months) but things do now seem to be running fairly well.
Out of the 2 the 300 kit has worked best on the 18 (giving more power) than it is on the 21. However the fastest bike is still the 250 F3 barreled '18.
The 300 Kit as it comes is a great road bike, but like andy I really like to rev a bike and have a hard hitting top end. The 300 just doesnt really do this for me. Its great fun to ride, but I like the 250 more even though the 300 is now reving as good as the 250, It still just doesnt have the ht of a 250.
Power wise, I had over 71bhp out of my 300 '18 with stock carbs running a hrc jet kit comapired to just over 64bhp out of the 250 '18 running tyga pipes and stock needles with abit of a tweek on the old mains.
If i was building something trick (which I am) I would go 250 not 300. If you want something that gives you a whole load of middle with very linear power then the 300 is perfect. _________________ If I have to take the carbs off once more...
Yeah, what were the results Andy? I'm just waiting for the snow to melt to fire up my new 300. Fit and finish of the kit were top notch and you can't beat the customer service you recieve from TYGA!!! Sure beats the trash talking, over priced, messed up orders, that take a year to recieve from a leisure store!!! _________________ 1995 A kit TZ 250
1994 Rothmans NSR 300sp SOLD
1998 RM 250 freestyle/motorcross
1998 Meathanol burning CR 500 AF super retard/motorcross/sand dunes/play bike
Intresting, Ive spoken with others on the site who have set up the 300 kit safley (jet wise) and had no issues, my view is that id rather have 70hp from a safe 300 than 70hp from a tuned to the nuts 250! when (i have to say that ) my top end goes or its time for a rebuild im gona get the 300kit, go premix and have it set up safe!
and yes TYGA have excellent customer support!! MAtt and Paul always take time to answer your questions!
intresting about apex have they had 300cc experiance then from tyga nsr's, what problems did they find? and dose anyone have an nsr250 with 70hp? last i heard it was only the RGV boys who where getting that kinda figure?
That is impresive, but a few folk on here me included have things like a Tyga pipes, moded airbox, hrc reeds, cages, filter, hrc jet kit and only get around 60ish Safe (our choice). maybe its just me but when i raz my bike and take it for a run id like to know that its not going to blow up on me becasue ive squeezed every last bit of power out of it.... I had a Bimota once with 180 bhp at the rear wheel it cost me fecking 6K and then 500miles into it and the bloody thing let go on the A1 big time so ive learned my leason about squeezing as much as you can from an engine, theres only so much you can do (i think ). one of the questions should be will the crank take 70hp from a 250 or a 300?
Stephen? did you have the 300 set up to get as much as you could from it, or was it just down to the fact that you where reving the tits out of it? that it kept going POP!
I'd be interested to know why Apex Leisure "warned" against fitting the kit, as I'm sure TYGA will be too.
Both Apex Leisure and TYGA Performance read this Forum, so let's hope they can both add constructive comments to the topic.
In the mean time, let's not go down the route of bashing anyone over unrelated circumstances, eh? The question here isn't who has the best customer service, it's about experiences relating to the 300 kit, and I stand by my comment a while back where I said I'd much rather have a tuned, buzzy and peaky 250 than a grunty 300! _________________ Andy.
NSR-WORLD.COM
Please keep all responses to Forum posts on the Forum so that others may benefit.
Please DO NOT PM me for technical advice. My time is precious, and you will probably receive a faster response on the Forum anyway.
The first time it blow up it was making 65bhp not very stressed crusing at about 80mph....
2nd blow up, on the way home from Andys 90mph... ohh its sezied again
3rd blow up going to work, in a 40 zone, oh thats a suprise its seized again!
4th blow up, The very next day, now running 230 main jets (to be safe) .. you guessed it... 70mph it sezies
5th blow up, Me and Andy after a nice day out of plug chopping and good fun, came out of a roundabout, and by george its seized again
6th time, Im starting to get pissed off now, now making 71 bhp but still running 210 mains it detonates and sezies... manged almost 500 miles this time though!
7th blow up, ok 75 power jet annnnd 210 mains.... er yeah, that one seized too.
Now I've raced CR500's since the year dot, my 250 has never, not once, seized and I can do the hour trip from my house to Andy's near flat out, and I mean flat out 13,000+ all the way, and it wont die. Yes I wanna hammer 'em, I want to rev the living crap outta them, but that is how you ride one! The 300 so far, on the 8th attempt, is hanging togther... but the 250's faster! _________________ If I have to take the carbs off once more...
Jeez - It's like you're all waiting for my little biatch to explode!
I've just set mine up safe 'through out' the rev range... So huge pilots (although that's the PJ38's for you) at #48 and #50, needles running at around 6% CO2 and the mains the same... I don't really worry about what sizes I'm running, just as long as the CO2 reading is above 5.75-6%... An RS or TZ250 on the edge will be as low as 2.5%, but i don't want to rebuild mine every 700Km...
I also went premix, so I know that it's getting the oil it should be, an many will increase the mains by 50% etc, and the pump doesn't compensate for this enough in my book. Again, I'm running 30:1 on TYGA's recommendation, although I could probably go with 40:1 to get nearer to the edge.
Mine made 71 with the standard carbs and 73 with the the 38's I've got now. But the over-rev has increased by about 700rpm, so at the top end, above about 11300, I now have about 10bhp more than the with the old carbs, although peak isn't that much different.
I've spoken to Graham File about bottom end tuning and the like at length now, and he's worked on a lot of 21's before, and with Dynotech, where i get my bike set up. He thinks i could expect around an 8 bhp increase in the midrange (up to 10000rpm), with another 3-4 bhp on top. This is without any crazy porting or any 250 style tuning to get similar power levels. The only thing you have to remember, is that your top end might be safe-ish, with these sort of figures, but the crank isn't going to like near 80bhp too much, and that power comes at the expense of pistons that are around 20g heavier (from memory) than the stock 250 ones... So extra strain again.
My main concern is reliabilty, as I'm a recreational rider, not a racer, so I had the option of buying a brand new top end, for half the price of the 250 one, and getting the sort of power than would cost me a couple of grand out of the box, with above average reliabilty.
My bike has cost me about the same as a good 2001/2 RS now, but I've paid it in dribs and drabs, (the worst way!), but if I'd have gone that route, I'd be forking out all the time for consumables that really add up in the long term.
I'm not going to say the 300 is better than the 250 as it's really a different bike now, with it's own merits. You can feel the extra weight in the engine, as it does rev that fraction slower, but in my opinion it makes up for it in other areas. _________________ NSR300R - Why did i ever have a 250...
I (in another life many moons ago) had an RD400 which had fantastic low down torque (would wheelie off the throttle in 1st and 2nd no probs), and I'm not the lightest - lol.
I'm not looking for top end speed - just bottom end grunt/acceleration, as I'd rather spend an afternoon on some twisties rather than belting up a motorway with one eye in the mirror looking in plod, or laser vans!.
As good as the Tyga 300 kit might be - I think I'll play safe, and invest in a set of Tyga spannies, wire splice and maybe a HRC jet kit, and if I get 55-60hp out of the girl, I'll be more than pleased.
Thanks again to you all for your input.
I can probably afford to get a set of NC35 upside down forks with the cash that I would have spent on the kit - so I can bling it up a bit! - lol.
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