I am Rich... hi. Currently living near Tokyo, but I am an american. I am buying a bike in the next month or so, and the NSR250R is looking like the one for me. I only have one issue with the purchase that I was wondering if someone here could help me with. I will be moving to California in 2 years, and I noticed that someone advertised an 88 NSR for sale with Ca plates on it. Is there a way I can get my NSR legal for use on Ca streets once I return. If so, could you email me and let me know how the process works? If it's a clear path, then an MC28SP will be in my future, but if not, I will work with one of the many used MC21's here. On that note, will a MC21/28 have a vair value for those of you in the US if I can't get it regestered upon my return?
That brings another question. What is an adv milage range that will require a freshening of the motor. This will be my first 2-stroke bike, and I want to know about what it's going to last after I buy it. I know that riding style, and care of the bike play a big part. I just want some idea of what to keep my eyes open for.
Thanks, and I am glad this forum exists! _________________ -Rich
I can't really comment too much on the California title, as I'm in the UK, but I do know it is possible. I also know it is very difficult! Some have been successful, some have not! I personally know a guy who imported his MC28SP a few years back and simply strolled into his local DMV (he's in the Bay Area) and got a title same day! Luck of the draw I guess!!
I've seen clean untitled MC21's go for $3000 upwards, and MC28's with titles go for $8k before! If you take advantage of your location and build a real clean, nice spec' bike, then you should get good money for it in the US if you decide to sell it upon your return.
For rebuilds I would personally say do the piston rings every 3-5000kms, and a set of pistons every other refresh, i.e. 6000 - 10000kms, depending on the way you ride. A crank really will be on the edge at 20000kms but will go to 30000kms. I pulled mine last week at about 35000kms and it was w@nked! It's been fed on fully synthetic all its life, and rarely revved above 12000rpm, but it wouldn't have done many more miles, that's for sure!! _________________ Andy.
NSR-WORLD.COM
Please keep all responses to Forum posts on the Forum so that others may benefit.
Please DO NOT PM me for technical advice. My time is precious, and you will probably receive a faster response on the Forum anyway.
12,000km old MC21's are very common aound here. I might pick one up, considering that is about 8000mi.
On the note of rebuilds, I have done my fair share of 4-stroke builds. How much harder, or easier is building the 2-stroke. Basically with all the parts, could I do it in an afternoon? I consider my mechanical ability has high. _________________ -Rich
Are you saying then that a crank on a 21 for example should only be expected to last between 15 and 20,000 miles before it needs a re-build, bearings, etc?.
That doesn't seem a lot? - but I freely admit to not being an expert! (
What would be the anticipated cost of a bottom end re-build on a 21?.
It's just that most second hand 21/28's come onto the market with between 15 and 20k miles on the clock - and if one were either buying or had just bought (as in my case) a machine with this type of milage, it could potentially cost quite a bit of money to do.
"Currently living near Tokyo"....no I'm not jealous at all
Not sure about the title thing as I live in NC, but you should be able to do a rebuild in a weekend for sure as long as you have all the parts anyway
For reference I'll have about $1500 in a full rebuild on a 21.
Have to give the guys at Tyga a plug here as Matt and Paul are awesome. Tyga has definately got a customer for life.
Hope that helps. _________________ To much HP is barely adequate!
I've had my MC21 since about 3000kms, but it's done 30K+ of hard use! There's only two states for my NSR... flat out or parked!
Like I say, my '21 has been fed fully synthetic all it's life (apart from those first 3000 that it was in Japan which I can't account for!) but it was still out of tollerance when pulled apart last week.
20000 miles (30000kms) isn't bad for a 2T crank on what really is a high performance engine - you wouldn't get that out of many 240bhp/ltr 4-strokes!
Let's say, for example, you had a 1991 MC21 with 35000kms, that's an average of 2333kms per year, not a great deal admittedly, but that's 15 years of asking 5 crank seals (left, centre, and right, plus 2 seals built into the centre main) to hold out in a rather harsh environment, and big-ends and mains to run in nothing but a mist of fuel-oil. It's not like a 4-stroke where the brearings are force fed lubrication under pressure from a dedicated pump! But, divide the cost of a crank by 15 years, and you get something like US$35 a year! Hardly breaking the bank is it?!
If I bought an NC30 with 30-35000kms on the clock, I'd expect to overhaul it - either that or only expect it to make 55hp, so it's as broad as it's long in my opinion.
If you consider your mechanical ability as high, you'll do a top end in 1/2 a day. After the first couple, you'll have it down to a couple hours. I can do a cylinder in about 35 minutes with all the tools and parts to hand... in the dark! I imagine Matt from TYGA can almost half that!! _________________ Andy.
NSR-WORLD.COM
Please keep all responses to Forum posts on the Forum so that others may benefit.
Please DO NOT PM me for technical advice. My time is precious, and you will probably receive a faster response on the Forum anyway.
Just got back from the yard where i have found what might be my new bike. '92 SE, 116xxkm for $2600. I had it running off the first kick after I figured out that someone had removed the bottom cyl's coil. After it was replaced, viola, bike ran great. There was no visable smoke at idle, but there is a spit during revs. Being my first 2-stroke, I am going to assume this is normal.
Would anyone, by chance, have a video or something what a normal bike's smoke would look like? I know it's a bit lame, but hey, what can I say. I am lame! _________________ -Rich
No video of start-up, but they are often quite smokey for the first 60 seconds or so, as there is an electronic solenoid and plunger on the oil pump to enrichen the feed on start-up. More often than not they smoke a little more from one pipe than the other too!
The "spitting" will likely be unburnt oil/fuel in the cylinder or exhaust from the first time you started it with the lower plug disconnected.
Stick a set of rings in it to be sure you know where you are, and you should be good to go! _________________ Andy.
NSR-WORLD.COM
Please keep all responses to Forum posts on the Forum so that others may benefit.
Please DO NOT PM me for technical advice. My time is precious, and you will probably receive a faster response on the Forum anyway.
OK, so it looks like I stand corrected (by StephenRC45), and an NC motor is likely to be in better shape at 35000kms than any NSR, but even so, given the type of owner many 15 year old NC's have had in previous years, I still think it's going to have been pretty well abused! This is coming from someone who has looked after a 40000 mile (not km!) RC45, so not your average NC owner!*
What I'm trying to say is that given the cost of the rebuilds divided by the number of years the motor is expected to kick out 60hp from 250cc's, it isn't a lot relatively.
*Note: No disrespect to any 400/4T owners here that have or do actually properly service and maintain their bikes, but let's be honest... the 400/4's are often bought by abusive post learners, and suffer badly for it in my experience. _________________ Andy.
NSR-WORLD.COM
Please keep all responses to Forum posts on the Forum so that others may benefit.
Please DO NOT PM me for technical advice. My time is precious, and you will probably receive a faster response on the Forum anyway.
This is an article written for the RGV site. Maybe you'll find it useful for USA stuff?
IMPORTING TO USA ADVICE
Owning an RGV in the United States can be a real challenge. From purchase to titling and riding the bike, there are many obstacles to overcome. In my 10 years of owning RGV's in the USA, I have encountered almost every obstacle that could de-rail ownership of these fantastic machines. With the knowledge I have gained over the last 10 years, I feel it is a good idea to pass it along to future RGV owners. It will hopefully save you some of the hassles that I went through and help you to enjoy the RGV without worry of looming disasters such as fines, confiscation, black listed VIN's and parts availability etc. The advice can also apply to other 2-strokes such as Aprilia's RS250.
Purchase: Finding an RGV in the USA is a bit easier in 2005 than it was back in 1995. Back then the bikes were few and far between and most came to our shores as Race Only restricted bikes. This meant they could not be titled to ride on the street. Since there was no official class for the RGV to compete in, no one wanted to spend money on a track day bike such as the RGV. Move ahead 10 years and most of these early machines that did get imported have been broken for parts or sold and found their way onto the street illegally. The Department of Motor Vehicle or DMV for short, was easy to fool back then as they were not wise to 2 stroke motorcycles. But an incident took place in California that changed all that. An NSR owner tried to sue the motorcycle shop that sold him the machine and Honda Motor Corp after a major crash. When Honda informed the parties involved in the lawsuit that they do not export NSR models to the United States a "Can of Worms" was opened. Since that time most of the loopholes in California have been closed and it is very difficult to title and register a Grey Market bike there now. What needs to be done if you are looking to import a Grey Market RGV,NSR,TZR is to surf the DMV websites for each state and find the loopholes in their regulations and get the bikes titled and registered in that manner. Most states don't baulk at a VIN number just because it does not have a 17 digit VIN. With all the special construction choppers being built it is just a formality that the VIN is less than 17 digits. Make sure you bring a stencil of the VIN number right off the frames steering stem with you when you go to the DMV that you have chosen, as that has helped me with any questions as to the validity of the VIN number. Keep in mind that any RGV currently titled will carry a higher selling price as it is guaranteed to be able to be owned and operated on US roads. All the hard work has been done already and you will have to pay as much as 1000 dollars more for a titled machine. Pricing is very straight forward. A VJ21 or VJ22 with no title and in rough shape will go for anywhere from 750 to 1,200 dollars. A bike in average condition with no title will go for roughly 2,500 to 3,500. A VJ 21 or VJ22 in near perfect condition with no title can sell for as high as 6,500 dollars. As for the 1996-1997 VJ23 SP expect to pay 5000 for one in rough shape with no title and upwards of 7,500 for one in average condition with no title. A mint condition VJ23 SP without a title can go as high as 9,500 dollars. As was stated previously the title alone will add 1,000 dollars to these prices.
Parts: Once you have found your Grey Market bike and have it titled and Registered, your next step is to secure a source for parts. One good thing about the RGV is that it shares the same motor as the Aprilia RS 250 which most of you know was an official import to the United States for the Aprilia Cup Challenge. So if you have a local Aprilia Dealer you can source most of your motor parts there. I have found the Aprilia parts prices to be inflated as much as 15-20% over Suzuki parts. If you have access to the parts microfiche online and can secure the part numbers you can run them by your local Suzuki Dealer and see if they come up as a valid part number. I am currently finishing a parts cross reference chart to save time in finding out what part numbers are available from US Suzuki so stay tuned. If you desire you can purchase parts new and used from some of the suppliers on the www.rgv.250.co.uk web page. They have a site sponsor that is very knowledgeable and helpful www.suzuki-spares.co.uk who will ship to the USA. The only drawback is the exchange rate and the high shipping cost from the UK and Europe. For this reason I use www.TSRworldwide.com or contact toru@tsrworldwide.com. If you supply him with the make and model and the part numbers requested, he can have them shipped directly from Japan in 7 to 10 working days. The prices are favourable and the shipping is very reasonable.
What suppliers in the USA can help with aftermarket items? If you have the need to replate a cylinder on your machine then I highly recommend Millennium Technologies. You can visit them at www.mt-llc.com. They have done all my work for years and will stand behind what work they have done. Other's include Boyesen Engineering, Race Tech Suspension, Goodridge Brake components, EBC, Ferrodo. Zero Gravity supply a top notch wind screen and Sharkskinz and Airtech supply aftermarket fairings, over in the UK an ex HRC guy makes special parts for the RGV and RS, these parts are sold by www.thetuningworks.com (sister site to
rgv250.co.uk) who will ship to the USA, it's a new site but building and new parts are always arriving. If you need to have your motor rebuilt you can contact www.af1racing.com. They did many of the Aprilia Cup Challenge bikes so they have a wealth of knowledge. I also recommend that you secure a Suzuki Shop Manual and learn to keep up a good maintenance schedule. This is probably the most important aspect of owning and operating an RGV. They are only as reliable as the person that owns them. So if you stay after things like cleaning the powervalves and adjusting the cables and changing your oil in the gearbox, you will be much happier and successful at owning one of these machines. A good piece of advice is to run the best injector oil you can afford as the cheaper brands tend to leave carbon deposits and residual sludge that builds up inside the motor so run the best you can afford. Read all the tech info on this site and forum. Linked in with the manual and you'll hardly need to visit the mechanics again.
Andy wrote:*Note: No disrespect to any 400/4T owners here that have or do actually properly service and maintain their bikes, but let's be honest... the 400/4's are often bought by abusive post learners, and suffer badly for it in my experience.
To be fair the NC30 and '35 just don't go wrong, abused or not, 100,000+ with no more than valve clearances done is not unheard of. All mine gets is oil, plugs and filter once a year, what else is there to do?
People who run them as roadbikes, trackbikes or even normalish spec (i.e sub 70bhp, just external mods) race bikes leave the engine alone. Only guy's chasing 80bhp actually take the bottom end to bits, even if mine did die I'd just get hold of another engine and replace the whole thing, wouldn't cost as much as a seizure either even if it did happen (which it won't).
I've never seen, heard, or even read on the 400 forum of an NC30/35 engine going wrong ever. Quite possibly Honda's finest hour.
I love my '28 but cannot in all sanity suggest to anyone they have an NSR as their only bike. _________________ Please do not PM me technical questions, if you can't find it on the Forum start a thread
Well, I have to admit, that as I posted I thought the NC was the worst possible example I could've thought of, and if anything is going to live through post-learner abuse, it is more likely to be the NC range.
Fontyyy wrote:
...even if mine did die I'd just get hold of another engine and replace the whole thing, wouldn't cost as much as a seizure either even if it did happen...
Stephen's RC45 probably won't cost as much as the bill was for your MC28 when it was rebuilt!! _________________ Andy.
NSR-WORLD.COM
Please keep all responses to Forum posts on the Forum so that others may benefit.
Please DO NOT PM me for technical advice. My time is precious, and you will probably receive a faster response on the Forum anyway.
If you want to get shipping into the states done on the cheap, make a friend in the military. I have a friend in the Airforce and he shipped me a frame from the UK for $28 and only took 6 days. It took me longer to get stuff from CA! _________________ To much HP is barely adequate!
After sitting on my butt in my "office" today, I was searching the used bike book, and found 4 possibilites out there. Two are MC18's two are MC21's. All things equal, which is a better bike over all.
AND are you able to swap the MC21 fairings onto the MC18, as I prefer the look of the middle bikes. _________________ -Rich
Rich wrote: There was no visable smoke at idle, but there is a spit during revs. Being my first 2-stroke, I am going to assume this is normal.
Would anyone, by chance, have a video or something what a normal bike's smoke would look like? I know it's a bit lame, but hey, what can I say. I am lame!
NO SMOKE! link to pic after i kicked her over, LOL dont do it in your garage unless you like the smell
http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/502174/
after around 3 - 5 mns the smoke dies down and depending on what oil is in there (i use castrol TTS, others rock oil) it should burn near clean.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum