Cool pics. So How was the school? Which coarse did you take? I was thinking of taking it when he comes around to Mid Ohio. _________________ 1995 A kit TZ 250
1994 Rothmans NSR 300sp SOLD
1998 RM 250 freestyle/motorcross
1998 Meathanol burning CR 500 AF super retard/motorcross/sand dunes/play bike
Well, everybody starts with level one and progresses from there. I took level one and two. The course may not be for everybody. Since I started racing motorcycles about 20 years and read all the code books then, and have been racing cars for the past 15 years, there wasn't too many revelations for me. But my main goal was just to get a motorcycle back on the track after 15 years, in a safe enviroment. For this I was successful.
If you don't have any racing or track experience then the school would be good and most the skills you learn can actually be used to make you a better rider on the street. If you do have allot of experience then you might be a little board. But the way they train is step by step and you have to start at level one and progress. This ensures that everybody learns everything in the process which ends with the two day racers camp. The school costs about $400-$500 a day depending on the track. If you have experiance then you might want to consider the Spencer school. _________________ james
Its not how fast you go...Its how you go fast.
MC21 Rothmans
RS250
RC31
CRF250X
748R
Porsche (many)
http://members.rennlist.com/j911brick/rennlist3_002.htm
Did you like the Keith Code books? I tried reading TOTW and whilst some of it made sense, a lot of it simply didn't. Figured it was cuz he's foreign... _________________ MC21SP Plaything
BMW F800GS Bumblebee
Triumph 9551 Daytona Big boys toy
FJ1100 Sporting relic
GTS1000 oddball
Yes, I thought his books were very good and well written. I use almost all of it on a regular basis. I think they are a must for anybody racing, cars, bikes or whatever. Good information for the street as well. What part were you having trouble with? He's a real nice guy and I'm sure if you called him he would be more than happy to explain it. _________________ james
Its not how fast you go...Its how you go fast.
MC21 Rothmans
RS250
RC31
CRF250X
748R
Porsche (many)
http://members.rennlist.com/j911brick/rennlist3_002.htm
Twist of the Wrist 1 is a bit deep and hard to read anyway but;
Twist of the Wrist 2 is in fact the CSS level 1 and is far easier going.
Twist of the Wrist 1 is level 2 of the CSS and does make more sense after level 1.
Levels 3 and 4 are covered by The Soft Science of Roadracing Motorcycles.
The thing is with the CSS and the Code books you can't just dib in and get the odd hint, it's a system, a soft science, hence everyone starts at level one, if the basics of your riding don't agree with the Code way then nothing else can. Code says it's not about having the most nerve, seeing God then braking or any other cliché. Once you've got the bike behaving it's about knowing what you do, where you do it, where you are and where you're going, once you know those you can make changes to go quicker. Without it, well, how can you change (for instance) where you brake when all you know about where you brake is if it's any later you (think you?) will be in the gravel? _________________ Please do not PM me technical questions, if you can't find it on the Forum start a thread
Maybe that was the problem, it was book one. I did read it fron the front, and whilst I was racing. (Not actually on the track at the same time you understand!)
Think I just struggled to put his words into practise cuz I was scared all the time! _________________ MC21SP Plaything
BMW F800GS Bumblebee
Triumph 9551 Daytona Big boys toy
FJ1100 Sporting relic
GTS1000 oddball
That is ironic because the first thing KC talks about is you "attention budget". _________________ james
Its not how fast you go...Its how you go fast.
MC21 Rothmans
RS250
RC31
CRF250X
748R
Porsche (many)
http://members.rennlist.com/j911brick/rennlist3_002.htm
I know it's almost a heresy to say it, but I thought the Code books were utter rubbish!
Firstly because they are really badly written (Andy would have given him a real telling off if he'd been posting on the forum ), but secondly (and this may well just be me of course) I find riding a bike is a really 'organic' and wholistic experience (er, man ) that can't easily be broken down (other than for descriptive purposes after the fact) in the way Code describes it. I tried on a couple of occasions putting some of Code's stuff into practice and found that I went considerably slower because I was spending too much time actively thinking about what I was doing rather than just going with what 'felt' right. I seem to remember him even talking about getting all of the braking out of the way before turning in and stuff like that. That's all well and good on some heavy evil-handling old 80s 750 superbike or something, but it just doesn't translate at all to how I (and most of us here I'd think - on the track anyway) ride a 250 stroker, where you can trail the brake right to the apex, and then get straight back on the gas. In all, the only stuff I thought was accurate were descriptions of things that are such common sense that they hardly need stating - working out and then 'adjusting' braking markers etc.
Like I said, maybe it's just me, or maybe I didn't follow it properly? The way it was written certainly frustrated me, so perhaps that had some bearing on things, but overall I thought it was little more than an overly-anal disection of the procedure of riding a bike quickly from the mind of a smack-addled fool
Like I said, heresy to some, but that was my experience of it. I'm with Mr. Ett. A load of old cobblers!
Maybe I should have another read when I'm in a less dismissive-of-Californian-psychobabble-and-gobbledegook frame of mind? Nah, better things to do with my time - like riding!
Wb
Last edited by wb on Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
wb wrote:I know it's almost a heresy to say it, but I thought the Code books were utter rubbish!
Pretty strong don't you think? How does it compare to the books you have written? Are you a multi-championship winning voice of experience?
wb wrote:
Firstly because they are really badly written
"poorly written",not "badly". That would be badly English.
wb wrote:
but secondly (and this may well just be me of course) I find riding a bike is a really 'organic' and wholistic experience (er, man ) that can't easily be broken down (other for descriptive purposes after the fact) in the way Code describes it.
Authors of racing education routinely break down the instruction into step or parts. What other way is there to do it? Holistic experience will only getting you so far. You must know be able execute honed skills with perfection if you want to be at the top of the game.
wb wrote:
I tried on a couple of occasions putting some of Code's stuff into practice and found that I went considerably slower because I was spending too much time actively thinking about what I was doing rather than just going with what 'felt' right.
And that is sort of the whole point. KC points out that you learn and practice the skills till you can do them without thinking about it.
wb wrote:
I seem to remember him even talking about getting all of the braking out of the way before turning in and stuff like that. That's all well and good on some heavy evil-handling old 80s 750 superbike or something, but it just doesn't translate at all to how I
True, the book was originally written in early '80s, but just because your not able to put things into perspective or context does not mean the book is crap or has no value.
wb wrote:
In all, the only stuff I thought was accurate were descriptions of things that are such common sense that they hardly need stating - working out and then 'adjusting' braking markers etc.
There is no such thing as common sense. Everything is learned. The whole point of books is to simplify the learning process.
wb wrote:
Like I said, maybe it's just me, or maybe I didn't follow it properly? The way it was written certainly frustrated me, so perhaps that had some bearing on things, but overall I thought it was little more than an overly-anal disection of the procedure of riding
There is a point to this type of education: It ensures every reader has all the information they will need. Otherwise it would be like trying to learn algebra without first knowing addition or subtraction. Sure, addition and subtraction seen pretty elementary, but if you were trying to teach an algebra to people who have never had any previous schooling, you would have to start with teaching the basics of math. _________________ james
Its not how fast you go...Its how you go fast.
MC21 Rothmans
RS250
RC31
CRF250X
748R
Porsche (many)
http://members.rennlist.com/j911brick/rennlist3_002.htm
Actually, I know exactly what WB is saying. For me, biking is something I do cuz it feels good. I ride by my senses - feel, balance, noise, vision, and found the whole CSS thing too mathmatical, too clinical.
I'm sure if I'd followed it to the letter I would have been a far better racer - there was plenty of room for improvement! But I found that I was enjoying the way I rode, even if it wasn't the fastest way round a track. Dissecting the ride into a simple set of actions spoiled the enjoyment for me.
I ride for pleasure, and I don't have that drive to be the fastest guy out there, to set ever better lap times. I ride for the feeling that riding a perfect corner gives me. Understanding the exact physics behind it somehow detracts from the whole experience.
So thanks Keith, but no thanks. Do wave as you ride past though eh? _________________ MC21SP Plaything
BMW F800GS Bumblebee
Triumph 9551 Daytona Big boys toy
FJ1100 Sporting relic
GTS1000 oddball
Lol. Touchy, Mr Brick! You on a commission deal with him or something? There's no real need for the personal stuff though is there? Nothing wrong with the term 'badly written', incidentally; it is perfectly acceptable phrasing in English - unlike 'math' of course... Lol, look, you've got me at it now! Sorry . Language has, in any case, as I'm sure you are aware, an internal dynamic. it does not remain static over the years, instead it changes as societies change. There are no absolute laws of grammar and syntax. There are really only paradigms which shift over time. I've not heard anyone say 'forsooth' for ages
I thought I'd made it pretty clear that I was simply expressing my own opinion of the books, not offering a closely reasoned critique of the Code 'vision' or the CSS. I'm sure many people find them very useful.
The only point I was making is that the Code books just don't work for me. If you want to spend your money on them, that's your business. I hope you continue to find them helpful. I was simply offering a balance to the 'Code's a genious' mantra.
Anyway, I've got to go and check my 'attention budget'
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), but secondly (and this may well just be me of course) I find riding a bike is a really 'organic' and wholistic experience (er, man 
) that can't easily be broken down (other than for descriptive purposes after the fact) in the way Code describes it. I tried on a couple of occasions putting some of Code's stuff into practice and found that I went considerably slower because I was spending too much time actively thinking about what I was doing rather than just going with what 'felt' right. I seem to remember him even talking about getting all of the braking out of the way before turning in and stuff like that. That's all well and good on some heavy evil-handling old 80s 750 superbike or something, but it just doesn't translate at all to how I (and most of us here I'd think - on the track anyway) ride a 250 stroker, where you can trail the brake right to the apex, and then get straight back on the gas. In all, the only stuff I thought was accurate were descriptions of things that are such common sense that they hardly need stating - working out and then 'adjusting' braking markers etc.
