Hi all, I'm thinking about getting an NSR250R SE (1994~) sometime soon and have been shopping around the different shops here in Tokyo for one. This is going to be my first bike, and just wanted to see if there is anything I should keep an eye out for when looking at the various bikes. I've seen some that look like they are in pretty good condition with low mileage, but was worried I might miss something.

Also, in terms of maintenance, what are some of the things that I need to do on a regular basis in order to keep it running well for a long period of time? Please keep in mind that I'm asking from the perspective of a beginner rider and have never owned a bike before.

Thanks!
Maru

Also, in terms of maintenance, what are some of the things that I need to do on a regular basis in order to keep it running well for a long period of time? Please keep in mind that I'm asking from the perspective of a beginner rider and have never owned a bike before.

Thanks!
Maru[/quote]

Keep the 2 stroke oil topped up with good quality fully synthetic 2 stroke oil.
Likewise use a good quality gearbox oil and check level regually.
Fit new spark plugs and clean air filter.
Check and adjust chain tension and check for worn sprockets.
I would always do all the above when i first get a bike as you don't know how well its been looked after (or maybe get someone to do it for you).
There is infomation on this site about maintenance schedules so have a look in the workshop section.
Make sure you let the bike warm up before you thrash it.

Hello Maru, and welcome to the Forum.

If you are in Tokyo, then what a fantastic position to be in... you get the pick of the bunch!

First bit of advice from me would be NOT to fall in love with the first NSR you look at! It's easily done!!

Secondly, I would say buy the most standard bike you can find! It will be tempting to get a bike with race pipes and rear-sets etc., but the less modifications it has, the less likely it is to have been fiddled with. Getting parts in Japan is a piece of cake, so you can always modify it later on.

Not sure how it works buying from shops in Japan, but you can usually get a 3 or 6 month warranty of sorts in the UK on a used bike. The longer the available warranty is usually a sign of how confident the seller is! If they only want to give you 30 days, then be a little suspicious! When I bought mine, the importer gave me 3 months free, and offered a dirt cheap +6 month (9 months in total) option, and a more expensive +9 months option.

Low mileage is key if this is a new venture for you. Try to get something with up to 20,000 kms on it. That should see you with another good 20,000+ kms at least on the crank with a standard motor... probably double that. The crank is the most expensive part of the bike to replace.

Most bikes will have been crashed at some point! Look for all the usual signs. Scraped handlebar ends, scraped levers, scraped footrests, scraped exhaust cans etc. They can all be cleaned up easily for minor "low sides", but always leave some evidence.

Good condition original plastic is worth more than ANY aftermarket stuff, regardless of what colours it's painted in, and how good the finish is!

Regardless of what the seller tells you, I would take it to a Honda dealer and get the top-end serviced. New pistons and rings. I doubt it's going to cost too much in Japan.

I'm sure others will have some more ideas for you. There are also a couple of Forum Members in Japan that can offer up some more localised advice too.
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Thanks for your advice! I'm going to go visit a few more shops today to see if there are any good bikes. Most of the ones I've seen have been more or less completely stock, and the fairings all look like they are original and in great condition. I'm trying to find one with very low mileage and have seen a number of them with under 10,000 km. I'll definitely look more closely to see if there is any evidence of a crash to the bike.

Thanks again!
Maru

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Last edited by DifferentStrokes on Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

So I stopped by a bike shop in Sumida-ku and they had like 10+ NSR250R's around, with about 3 or 4 of them in really good condition, somewhere between 5000 - 7500 km on the bikes. I'm getting pretty interested in one of these but not sure now that you mention its not that much of a reliable bike.

I don't have much experience riding, but I've taken a two week motorcycle course and learned on a 400cc bike. Would this bike be suitable for a beginner or would you feel that it is a bit too aggressive of a bike? I don't plan on driving it aggressively at all (we don't have big streets here in Tokyo), but just wanted to make sure I'm not getting something that is dangerous for a newcomer.

Also, reliability is also pretty important for me since we don't have a lot of garages or areas to work on a bike in Tokyo since space is very limited here. I've always liked the NSRs and there doesn't seem to be many new bike options (except maybe a Kawasaki Ninja 250r, but those will cost about 10,000 USD to get around here, 5000 for the bike, 5000 for all the registration and stuff for a new bike).

Is maybe an Aprilia 250r easier to maintain? What kind of other options would you recommend in the 250cc sportbike style?

Thanks,
Maru

All 2 strokes are to be considered high maintenence really.
I find some of the fun of owning them is taking them apart and putting them back together again.
Maybe going down the 4 stroke path would be more suitable to start with.
There were a few 250 4 stroke race reps made in japan like the cbr250 and the zxr250 (i hear they even used to bolt little turbos to the zxr) might be worth a look at them.

The 250's (NSR's, TZR's, RGV's etc.) are all considered learner bikes in Japan! That's one of the reasons the 250 class (especially the 4-strokes like the CBR250RR, FZR250R and GSX-R250, which are shockingly underpowered by comparison) even exist, as you need (needed) to take a test to ride anything bigger!

A 40hp MC28 should be reliable as the day is long, so don't be put off by the fact it's a 2-stroke. I have NEVER owned anything but 2-strokes, and properly looked after there is no reason why they won't go on and on. Yes, they can seem to be more unreliable, but it's the nature of the motor. It fires on every TDC (twice as much as a 4-stroke) and is capable of making well in excess of double the power of a comparatively sized 4-stroke. Ask a 1994 Fireblade to make 240bhp/litre* and see how long it lasts! 240bhp/ltr is what just a "delimited" 250 will make, not even a tuned one, and is why they are more labour intensive.

Tens of thousands of 40 and 45hp 250 2-strokes were daily rides for commuters and leisure riders in Japan, and were among the most popular bikes on the road for 15 years, not without reason. There's not even a lot to look after. Keep the air filter clean, change the spark plugs every few thousand miles, and use the best oil (not that most commuters would even have done that back in the day!), and there's no reason why ANY Jap' spec (40~45hp) 250 won't do 40~60,000 fairly trouble-free K's.

People telling you they are unreliable are often trying to screw big horsepower out of them, or maybe even mediocre HP and either just don't know how to set them up, or don't service them regularly considering the increased performance! Simply following Honda's standard maintenance schedule for a tuned 65hp NSR for example, isn't a good practice. The Workshop Manual/service schedule is based on a standard 40/45hp bike, not a delimited one making over 60hp... doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out it will need additional care when making 50% more power. Not only does it make that additional 50%, but it will probably be ridden even harder given the increase in performance.

Buy a low mileage, standard bike, and get an official Honda Dealer to service the top-end. It's just as likely to go wrong as any similarly abused 250 or 400 learner 4-stroke probably! Everyone here needs to consider how wrecked any of their learner bike experiences are/were! Nature of the beast! Cheap and cheerful bikes for cheap and cheerful "yoofs"! If you want a mint, reliable bike, buy a new VFR800! If you want something suicidally fast, buy a new GSX-R1000, if you want cheap, simple, fairly economical fun, buy a 15 year old 250 or 400, but expect to have to look after it, or fix some stuff from time-to-time!

*According to Honda, a standard 124hp 1994 Fireblade makes around 138.86hp/litre -- a standard 40hp MC28 makes 160hp/litre. You are also asking 40hp to cart around 60~100kg of rider + kit... of course it's going to have a harder, more stressed, more labour intensive life.
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Last edited by DifferentStrokes on Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

DifferentStrokes wrote:
Anyone who tells you the reliability of a 2 stroke is anywhere compareable to a four stoke is either a blatent lier, has a 2-stroke they want to sell you, or has a business that Depends on others riding them. PERIOD

OK, I am obviously a liar, as I'm not selling my NSR and I don't have a business dependant on 2-strokes.

I do however live in the real world, and I have owned, and do own reliable 2-strokes. I also know of plenty of destroyed 4-strokes, both car and bike motors. Simple fact is that anything will break if it's abused, even the so-called unburstable V4's, but there is also no reason why a stock 45hp 250 can't also be reliable. It just needs to be looked after. I never broke my MBX125 or my TZR125, despite not having a clue how to look after them when I was 17! All I did know was to put decent oil in. I can't EVER remember buying a spark plug for a 125, EVER cleaning an air filter, or EVER replacing a piston/rings! All I did was ride them and clean them! Funilly enough, they would both probably have been around 20hp... about 1/2 that of an MC28 with 2 cylinders and twice the capacity.

The point about a 240hp 1000 is that it's going to be an extremely highly strung race bike, and liable to extremely intensive maintenance... sound familiar? 2-strokes tend to be unreliable because they are neglected, and also (when making decent power) producing high levels of performance for it's capacity. It's also being asked to do the same things as a "normal" bike but with considerably less power and torque. It's all relative.

A 40hp 250 IS NOT unreliable, but idiots can make it so!
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Firstly you got to define "reliability".

Looked after a two stroke will probably let you down less often than a 4 stroke, less to go wrong.
I've seen more 400 race bikes sat at the side of the track this year than 250s

Abused and unmaintained a two stroke will empty your wallet pretty quickly, a VFR400 will run for years.
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Last edited by DifferentStrokes on Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

Let's answer PortableFishy's question rather than turning it into a slanging match and scaring him away

Any bike needs TLC, and stings your wallet. 2 strokes need it more frequently in smaller amounts. 4 strokes appear to be able to cop a lot of abuse before something goes bang, and it does in a big way. At the end of the bike ownsership, I would guess it comes out roughly even.

Both 2 and 4 strokes are reliable if they are well maintained (Andy is alluding to that in his posts). The major difference is that a stroker requires more frequent maintainance but costs less to perform this maintenance.

So if you like the sound, smell and performance of a stroker, and you're willing to pay for the servicing since you don't have the space to do it, get one

If you want to just buy a bike, not worry about it, and pay someone else to do oil changes and everything else......get a 4 stroker.

PortableFishy wrote:So I stopped by a bike shop in Sumida-ku and they had like 10+ NSR250R's around, with about 3 or 4 of them in really good condition, somewhere between 5000 - 7500 km on the bikes. I'm getting pretty interested in one of these but not sure now that you mention its not that much of a reliable bike.

====>snip

Also, reliability is also pretty important for me since we don't have a lot of garages or areas to work on a bike in Tokyo since space is very limited here. I've always liked the NSRs and there doesn't seem to be many new bike options (except maybe a Kawasaki Ninja 250r, but those will cost about 10,000 USD to get around here, 5000 for the bike, 5000 for all the registration and stuff for a new bike).

====>snip

Thanks,
Maru

DifferentStrokes wrote:
It is a FACT, 4's are more reliable. Given the same size, state of tune , amount and intensity of use, same service schedule, etc.

It doesn't mean a 2-stroke has to be unreliable. And more to the point, if you take a similarly tuned 250 4-stroke, I guarantee it will be equally as, if not more UNRELIABLE than any 250 2-stroke!

I can't be bothered to argue about it, my time is too valuable to me.

As for "selling" Memberships. Yes, I do, but I don't make a living from it and it's not a requirement of being on the Forum, unlike some boards that I've visited (I.T. ones are probably the worst). Using the free area doesn't effect the quality of my technical input/replies either, in the same way that posting tech stuff in the Members area isn't guaranteed to get any additional info that wouldn't be posted in this section. The primary aim of the Members area initially is to get retailers involved to give subscribers discounts. As Fontyyy has pointed out several times, a Ti Membership discount could very easily be offset with an order to a Supporting Vendor.

The amount taken in Subscriptions this year has however covered the cost of running the Forum and Main Site for the first time in over 8 years. The banner ads are also NOT for mine or Charles's benefit. They ARE NOT paying advertisements. The companies have agreed to give Members discounts in return for the space and referrals when and where we can, which is why we don't have masses of advertising. I have actually turned away advertisers recently.
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Just to say I have no where to keep or work on my bikes, they're either in my van or outside on a shared front yet I do all my own mechanical work.
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