So I was flicking through Yahoo last night when I stumbled across this, described as "Engine dry MC16E SP".







I'm no expert but looks to me like an mc16 F3 engine, the dry clutch set up is different to normal and looks like the rs250 type ignition.

Had a quick look at some of the posts on here and some of Dan's stuff on Gecko motorcycles and it all seemed to add up, I decided to go for it and emailed Drew aka "Moriwaki Man" (quick and efficient service as usall), paypaled him some Yen and he hit the buy it now button!

So my question is really aimed at the F3 experts out there, have a I bought a cheap f3 engine or an exspensive mc16 lump

Yup, F3 engine.
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If I have to take the carbs off once more...

Fancy bit of kit, be aware that a motor is VERY close to the max weight most proxy bidders will ship (30kg) anything more is asking for a huge bill.
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StephenRC45 wrote:Yup, F3 engine.

Cool I thought it was, is it mc16?

fontyyy wrote:Fancy bit of kit, be aware that a motor is VERY close to the max weight most proxy bidders will ship (30kg) anything more is asking for a huge bill.

MM is on the case, he is going to break it down and send it in a couple of packages same as the SP motor he is selling in the classifieds. Although it still aint gonna be cheap!

Yes Paul it's MC16.
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If I have to take the carbs off once more...

Nice buy.What is parts availability like for something like that?

bushman wrote:Nice buy.What is parts availability like for something like that?

Not sure but I dont expect David Silvers hold much stock for them

Parts availability ranges from virtually non-existent to totally non-existent!

You'll find base gaskets... maybe pistons (generally around £120 a piston, if and when you can find them), small-end bearings and clips, and that's about it!

You may find clutch plates if you're lucky, but you'll probably need to get what comes with it relined, as Roy did with some F-III plates before.

The purchase was worth it just for the transmission though, in my opinion. They are incredibly rare, and currently I know of only five in existence. (Four in the UK, and now this one.)
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Andy.
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Just had 2 large boxes arrive in the post this morning from Japan.

Moriwaki Man had done an excellent job of packing everything as usual and no duty or additional charges to pay!

I finally got around to stripping my recently arrived F3 motor last week, this is how it arrived from Japan



Partially stripped and sent in two packages by Moriwaki Man. I set to stripping it but only got as far as this



I must have the best part of a dozen different flywheel pullers but do you think any of them were the right size? You can already see how special this motor is though, the primary drive and clutch set up which i believe is basically NF5 RS250 is well minimalist and makes a stock dry clutch set up look well over enginered and agricultural, like something you would find on an MZ! NF5 ignition:



Single ring pistons with 14mm off set little ends are I believe NF4 (early RS 125) Side by side with a stock NSR piston:



The general condition was pretty good for a 25 year old engine which had been stored for some time,The transmission was full of fresh oil, the cylinder bores are perfect, pistons appear to have had little use and the crank feels good and had been well oiled prior to storage. The clutch plates appear new but the steels have corroded from moisture and stuck to the fibre plates!

I finally finished stripping the engine after having a puller made





No cylinders in this pic as they are away being repaired. The small steel pipes that the cooling hoses connect to had corroded through so my mate is making some new ones for me. The omly real damage apart from the clutch plates is corrosion to the cooling system components.



This pic makes it look worse than it is, the casing is actually not to bad, I had the sheared bolt removed and it will clean up fine with a bit of vapour blasting, the seal needs replacing and the impeller will be fine. The impeller shaft is knackered though:



Also bought some f3 electrics from stephen rc45:



I will send everything away for vapour blast and plating this week then I need to source a few parts and can rebuild it.

What's it going in?

Strange how mine had exactly the same bolt sheered off!
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Andy.
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Andy wrote:What's it going in?

Its going in my mc21 track bike. Originally I only bought it for the transmission which I planned to put in my 21 cases but it seemed a shame to not use the complete engine hence why I bought the electrics as well. However I have found its not going to be a case of simply dropping the 16 motor into the 21 chassis:




As you can see the rear engine mount is different which leaves me with two options, go back to the original plan and build it with the 21 cases or move the rear engine attach brackets on the frame. Did consider machining the 16 cases but Andy would have me stoned for defacing a set of HRC cases

Andy wrote:Strange how mine had exactly the same bolt sheered off!

If you look at the inside of the water pump cover it has a channel from the water pump to that bolt hole, I presume it is so you can remove that bolt and drain the coolant. It also leaves the bolt exsposed to water which is probably the reason that bolt was corroded and seized on both of our engines.

Have been looking at replacing the water pump impeller shaft, I pressed the shaft out of the f3 impeller and a stock mc21 impeller (mc21 top, f3 below):



It looks like they started life as the same blank part and have been machined to suit, unfortunatley the small spigot at the end which runs inside the crankcase is smaller on the 21 shaft! I will have to try and source the proper nf5 part or maybe try and find a stock mc16 impeller.

I'm going to have the knurled section machined on this one to suit the f3 gear anyway. I can then use the f3 transmission on my 21 cases if need be, it even has the helical gear so I can run it with the standard oil pump

I tried it in some 21 cases and everything seems to line up a treat.

paul g wrote:
...I have found its not going to be a case of simply dropping the 16 motor into the 21 chassis:

I could've told you that!

You may find you're better off looking for some R2J cases. I can't swear to it, but I think the crank will go in R2 cases with very little modification. You will of course need to modify the stator face, but I have the HRC drawings for that if you need them. R2 cases will naturally drop straight into the MC21 frame.
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Andy.
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