Subject says it all really. My 28SE is the second bike I've owned, I had a CBR250 before it and I ALWAYS rev matched going down gears. I now do the same on the NSR. So do you rec match? If so, why? If not, why not?
I'm with Fontyyy. Hard on the brakes,clutch in and straight down the box till you get to the gear needed. Get everything done as soon as possible to allow you time to contentrate on the corner.
That's what Dave Ett told me to do......and I've found it to be good advice. Still dog sh*t slow on the track mind..... but at least it sounds like I know what I'm talking about!
More of a four stroke concern really (esp without a slipper clutch), but I do do it when there's the opportunity if running premix - just to get a bit more lube in there...
No from me too. The NSR spins up fast enough not to really need it, and as I was taught: clutch in, down the box to the gear you need, clutch out and tip it in! _________________ MC21SP Plaything
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Dave Ett wrote:No from me too. The NSR spins up fast enough not to really need it, and as I was taught: clutch in, down the box to the gear you need, clutch out and tip it in!
I guess it's less of an issue on a two stroke because there is less inertia in the engine and the engine itself is lower compression. Since I'm coming from a four stroke I really am in the habit of doing it because it really felt nasty not rev matching on the CBR, even managed to lock the rear wheel once...
Would you guys agree that rev matching, even on a two stoke is better for the dogs in the gearbox? I'm more concerned with road riding really as thats what I do mostly.
Old habits die hard, but i will have to try downshifting without rev matching next time I'm out for a ride.
I do see the need for it on a 4 stroke but on the NSR i never had to, maybe due to low compression and stuff.
I was used to riding on the nsr for a year and rented a Hornet just for fun, and man it felt like i slamed on the brakes when i down shifted. _________________ feel the wind
Its a good habit to get into and to practice until you can do it accurately and fluidly everytime - though i still find it abit hit and miss to rev match precisely to this day. I also do 'heel and toe' in my car as i've been doing it for about 5 years now i can rev match quite accurately without jerking the brakes as i prod the throttle pedal with my heel.
As for small two stroke engines, its not necessary on the road but as i say its a good habit to practice. On the track it only really matters if you're fast enough that during braking you have little or no weight on the rear wheel in which case even the wee engine's inertia is enough to drag the rear tyre and so rev matching is required for added control.
When racing i always felt faster when i was in the first half of the corner, leant over, trail braking but with the clutch fully out and my hand off the lever - with the revs falling as i slowed down, nearing the apex. Its one less thing to think about in that situation and you have more time to feel the engine react as you start to roll the throttle on - maybe just before the apex (though this doesn't apply to every corner) - im imagining Druids at Brands Hatch as i visualise this. _________________ After years of moaning about immigrants now i am one...
wb wrote:More of a four stroke concern really (esp without a slipper clutch), but I do do it when there's the opportunity if running premix - just to get a bit more lube in there...
I've been working with Ian Emberton (IanE), an experienced Honda RS engine man in the UK. Ian said he has known big downchanges on closed throttle to, in some cases, cause piston & ring damage. As its on premix, there is a break in lubrication supply on a closed throttle. A big downchange through several gears will see high engine load fall and rise again suddenly, which is when you need that lubricating film between piston & bore. However, the racing 2T oils do have a good ability to maintain a film, which is probably why the problem is not seen all of the time.
Obviously no issue when running an oil injector, which delivers oil even on closed throttle, albeit at a reduced rate. _________________ Rich
MC21 Track Bike / RS250 NF5 'Spencer', NX5 'Cadalora' & NXA 'Aoyama' / RS500 / Two Brothers Racing RC30
Firm belief in mimicking i rekkon, if you watch the Rossi's and Stoners of the world and listen to the onboard action, particularly decelerating, they'll pick there gears once off the throttle, not really blipping to much but a lot of emphasis seems to be on the clutch release. If ya know what i mean _________________
I think the point when racing is that you should either be 100% on the gas, or 100% on the brakes, and anything in between is slow.
Coming down the box one cog at a time, rev matching as you go is incredibly slow, albeit far nicer on your engine! On the track, that's not an issue, on the road it is of course.
In my early racing days I lost count, came down to first and locked up the back wheel dumping myself on the deck! Lesson learned - know which gear you're in!
Back when I was good (ha!), I would weight shift to take the braking force on my inner thigh not through my arms, then brake like hell whilst going down the box. At tip in, smoothly release the brake as you feed in the clutch whilst opening the throttle. I paid for an afternoon of one-to-one instruction and cut 8 seconds a lap off my times, but more importantly felt a damn sight more confident and in control.
If you are using your arms to brace your body weight whilst braking, then you're blocking the steering from doing what it needs to do, and preventing your arms from making any line adjustments you need. If you can't steer whilst braking then you're fecked if someone cuts across your line!
I also learned to rest my forearm on the tank when proper cranked over, as it gave some reference point and a bit of steering damper effect. That and a knee on the deck make things feel very stable when the fairing is scraping! _________________ MC21SP Plaything
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