NSR250.net Forums Logo: Honda NSR 250 Forums, Classifieds and Service Manual in English. Covering All Honda NSR 250 MC16, MC18, MC21 and MC28 models
NSR250.net Forums

#
 
#
 
Performance Engineering

  • NSR250 Forums Index ‹ NSR250R Discussion
  • Members Content
  • Members Garage
  • Subscription
  • Transactions
  • FAQ
  • Search
  • Register
  • Log in

do you "blip" the throttle while downshifting?


Reply to topic   printer-friendly view
Page 1 of 1   Download Topic





Major_Tom

 
Posts: 119
Joined: 20 Oct 2009

Location: New Zealand
1994 Honda NSR250 MC28SE
    Send private message View user's profile
    Reply with quote  

do you "blip" the throttle while downshifting?

Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:48 am » Post: #1 » Download Post

Subject says it all really. My 28SE is the second bike I've owned, I had a CBR250 before it and I ALWAYS rev matched going down gears. I now do the same on the NSR. So do you rec match? If so, why? If not, why not?

Tom
Back to top


fontyyy

 
Posts: 3509
Joined: 10 Apr 2004

Location: Derbyshire, England
1991 Honda NSR250 MC21
    Send private message View user's profile Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
    Reply with quote  

Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:23 am » Post: #2 » Download Post

Probably on the road, not on the track if I'm trying to go quickly.

Why not? No time, trying to win!
_________________
Please do not PM me technical questions, if you can't find it on the Forum start a thread
Back to top


racer38
Supporter - Titanium
Supporter - Titanium
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: 31 Jan 2005

Location: St Albans
1992 Honda RS250
    Send private message View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
    Reply with quote  

Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:34 pm » Post: #3 » Download Post

I'm with Fontyyy. Hard on the brakes,clutch in and straight down the box till you get to the gear needed. Get everything done as soon as possible to allow you time to contentrate on the corner.

That's what Dave Ett told me to do......and I've found it to be good advice. Still dog sh*t slow on the track mind..... but at least it sounds like I know what I'm talking about!
Back to top


silikesguiness
Supporter - Titanium
Supporter - Titanium
 
Posts: 2495
Joined: 11 Dec 2007

Location: chesterfield
1991 Honda nsr 250 mc21 sp
    Send private message View user's profile Send e-mail MSN Messenger
    Reply with quote  

Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:12 pm » Post: #4 » Download Post

whack it down the gears and throw it into the corner, thats what i do Very Happy
_________________
ive seen more tarts than mr kipling
Back to top


GrantA
Supporter - Titanium
Supporter - Titanium
 
Posts: 283
Joined: 03 May 2008

Location: Weston-Super-Mare, Somerset, UK
1992 Honda NSR250 MC21
    Send private message View user's profile
    Reply with quote  

Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:28 pm » Post: #5 » Download Post

silikesguiness wrote:whack it down the gears and throw it into the corner, thats what i do Very Happy


same here no engine braking to worry about just bang it down the box. Smile
Back to top


nxrsr20

 
Posts: 919
Joined: 15 Jul 2007

Location: Sydney, Australia
    Send private message View user's profile
    Reply with quote  

Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:05 pm » Post: #6 » Download Post

I echo the sentiments.....road habit of matching revs, on the track I'm just bang it down and let the clutch out.
Back to top


wb

 
Posts: 399
Joined: 08 Jun 2005

Location: Somerset, UK
    Send private message View user's profile
    Reply with quote  

Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:54 pm » Post: #7 » Download Post

More of a four stroke concern really (esp without a slipper clutch), but I do do it when there's the opportunity if running premix - just to get a bit more lube in there...
Back to top


Dave Ett
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
 
Posts: 3648
Joined: 20 Feb 2004

Location: Gloucestershire, England
    Send private message View user's profile
    Reply with quote  

Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:24 pm » Post: #8 » Download Post

No from me too. The NSR spins up fast enough not to really need it, and as I was taught: clutch in, down the box to the gear you need, clutch out and tip it in!
_________________
MC21SP Plaything
BMW F800GS Bumblebee
Triumph 9551 Daytona Big boys toy
FJ1100 Sporting relic
GTS1000 oddball

Back to top


racer38
Supporter - Titanium
Supporter - Titanium
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: 31 Jan 2005

Location: St Albans
1992 Honda RS250
    Send private message View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
    Reply with quote  

Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:26 pm » Post: #9 » Download Post

Dave Ett wrote:No from me too. The NSR spins up fast enough not to really need it, and as I was taught: clutch in, down the box to the gear you need, clutch out and tip it in!


The Master has spoken...............
Back to top


Major_Tom

 
Posts: 119
Joined: 20 Oct 2009

Location: New Zealand
1994 Honda NSR250 MC28SE
    Send private message View user's profile
    Reply with quote  

Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:30 pm » Post: #10 » Download Post

I guess it's less of an issue on a two stroke because there is less inertia in the engine and the engine itself is lower compression. Since I'm coming from a four stroke I really am in the habit of doing it because it really felt nasty not rev matching on the CBR, even managed to lock the rear wheel once...

Would you guys agree that rev matching, even on a two stoke is better for the dogs in the gearbox? I'm more concerned with road riding really as thats what I do mostly.

Old habits die hard, but i will have to try downshifting without rev matching next time I'm out for a ride.
Back to top


Max szeged

 
Posts: 236
Joined: 06 Mar 2006

Location: Lublin Poland
    Send private message View user's profile MSN Messenger
    Reply with quote  

Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:38 am » Post: #11 » Download Post

I do see the need for it on a 4 stroke but on the NSR i never had to, maybe due to low compression and stuff.
I was used to riding on the nsr for a year and rented a Hornet just for fun, and man it felt like i slamed on the brakes when i down shifted.
_________________
feel the wind
Back to top


Hermit

 
Posts: 588
Joined: 08 Jun 2005

Location: Paraparaumu, New Zealand
1992 Honda NSR250 MC21
    Send private message View user's profile
    Reply with quote  

Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:47 am » Post: #12 » Download Post

Its a good habit to get into and to practice until you can do it accurately and fluidly everytime - though i still find it abit hit and miss to rev match precisely to this day. I also do 'heel and toe' in my car as i've been doing it for about 5 years now i can rev match quite accurately without jerking the brakes as i prod the throttle pedal with my heel.

As for small two stroke engines, its not necessary on the road but as i say its a good habit to practice. On the track it only really matters if you're fast enough that during braking you have little or no weight on the rear wheel in which case even the wee engine's inertia is enough to drag the rear tyre and so rev matching is required for added control.

When racing i always felt faster when i was in the first half of the corner, leant over, trail braking but with the clutch fully out and my hand off the lever - with the revs falling as i slowed down, nearing the apex. Its one less thing to think about in that situation and you have more time to feel the engine react as you start to roll the throttle on - maybe just before the apex (though this doesn't apply to every corner) - im imagining Druids at Brands Hatch as i visualise this.
_________________
After years of moaning about immigrants now i am one...
Back to top


RichG

 
Posts: 1128
Joined: 11 Feb 2008

Location: Leeds, UK
1992 Honda NSR250 MC21
    Send private message View user's profile Visit poster's website
    Reply with quote  

Premix

Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:53 am » Post: #13 » Download Post

wb wrote:More of a four stroke concern really (esp without a slipper clutch), but I do do it when there's the opportunity if running premix - just to get a bit more lube in there...


I've been working with Ian Emberton (IanE), an experienced Honda RS engine man in the UK. Ian said he has known big downchanges on closed throttle to, in some cases, cause piston & ring damage. As its on premix, there is a break in lubrication supply on a closed throttle. A big downchange through several gears will see high engine load fall and rise again suddenly, which is when you need that lubricating film between piston & bore. However, the racing 2T oils do have a good ability to maintain a film, which is probably why the problem is not seen all of the time.

Obviously no issue when running an oil injector, which delivers oil even on closed throttle, albeit at a reduced rate.
_________________
Rich
MC21 Track Bike / RS250 NF5 'Spencer', NX5 'Cadalora' & NXA 'Aoyama' / RS500 / Two Brothers Racing RC30
Back to top


Kubira

 
Posts: 200
Joined: 24 Mar 2009

Location: Adelaide, Australia
1992 Honda MC21SE
    Send private message View user's profile Send e-mail
    Reply with quote  

Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:24 pm » Post: #14 » Download Post

Firm belief in mimicking i rekkon, if you watch the Rossi's and Stoners of the world and listen to the onboard action, particularly decelerating, they'll pick there gears once off the throttle, not really blipping to much but a lot of emphasis seems to be on the clutch release. If ya know what i mean
_________________

Back to top


Dave Ett
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
 
Posts: 3648
Joined: 20 Feb 2004

Location: Gloucestershire, England
    Send private message View user's profile
    Reply with quote  

Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:39 pm » Post: #15 » Download Post

I think the point when racing is that you should either be 100% on the gas, or 100% on the brakes, and anything in between is slow.

Coming down the box one cog at a time, rev matching as you go is incredibly slow, albeit far nicer on your engine! On the track, that's not an issue, on the road it is of course.

In my early racing days I lost count, came down to first and locked up the back wheel dumping myself on the deck! Lesson learned - know which gear you're in!

Back when I was good (ha!), I would weight shift to take the braking force on my inner thigh not through my arms, then brake like hell whilst going down the box. At tip in, smoothly release the brake as you feed in the clutch whilst opening the throttle. I paid for an afternoon of one-to-one instruction and cut 8 seconds a lap off my times, but more importantly felt a damn sight more confident and in control.

If you are using your arms to brace your body weight whilst braking, then you're blocking the steering from doing what it needs to do, and preventing your arms from making any line adjustments you need. If you can't steer whilst braking then you're fecked if someone cuts across your line!

I also learned to rest my forearm on the tank when proper cranked over, as it gave some reference point and a bit of steering damper effect. That and a knee on the deck make things feel very stable when the fairing is scraping! Wink
_________________
MC21SP Plaything
BMW F800GS Bumblebee
Triumph 9551 Daytona Big boys toy
FJ1100 Sporting relic
GTS1000 oddball

Back to top


Reply to topic   printer-friendly view
Page 1 of 1   Download Topic

NSR250R Discussion

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

  • NSR250 Forums Index
  • All times are GMT
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


Hosted by NSR250dotNET © 2008 NSR250dotNET