I've been converting my mc16 to race use, and part of that has been to fit the pgm2 off an mc18 along with the loom and clocks.

Now I've got to the stage where the bike is ready to run but am failing to get a spark at the plugs. I have so far connected:

Pickups
PGM
Battery
Coils
Earths to the engine and frame.
Clocks

I put a loop in the ignition switch terminal, to make the system live, which it seems to have done. I have a working neutral light and there is power in the system so I guess that terminal is the right one.

Now for the sparks, Looking at the wiring going to the old r/h switchgear, the switch is live when closed and cut when open. The wires in the switch are black and black/white. I have found the 4 pin connector in the loom that has the wiring to the kill switch, at least i think I have. Its the small red connector, with 4 pins, the black & black/white being for the kill switch and the other 2 wires for the brake light switch.

The wiring diagram for the mc18 on the japanese nsr site says that I should be looking for a white & white/yellow wire for the kill switch system but think thats wrong as none of it tallies up and the mc21 has the same colours I have.

Anyway..

If I bridge the black & black/white wires, I get a spark from the front cylinder coil, nothing from the rear. And nothing when I turn the engine over.

Also while the wires are bridged, the pgm is whining.

Any suggestions as to where I'm going wrong? I have hookes up the old mc16 system for the time being and the bike runs ok so its definetely not the battery/coils.

I have a feeling the pgm may be shot...

Paul
_________________
More **** two strokes than you can shake a **** stick at.

Anyone? I'm pretty stuck with this and noone has come forward with a spare pgm2...
_________________
More **** two strokes than you can shake a **** stick at.

Can't help with a PGM, but have you checked the reg/rect? They seem to be a bit of a weak spot - and from what I gather are often the downfall of the PGM. And is the battery good? They seem to like a healthy and fully charged battery,

I'm sure those with more NSR experience will be able to offer better pointers than that though.
_________________
Still smoking...

My spare PGM-II's are 6000 miles away I'm afraid!
_________________
Andy.
NSR-WORLD.COM

Please keep all responses to Forum posts on the Forum so that others may benefit.

Please DO NOT PM me for technical advice. My time is precious, and you will probably receive a faster response on the Forum anyway.

Check us out on Facebook! Please "like" our page!

Didnt have the reg/rec connected up at the time, couldnt see it making much difference really.

Anyways I've bought two PGM2's from Yahoo, just got to wait on them arriving!

Cheers!
Paul
_________________
More **** two strokes than you can shake a **** stick at.

wb wrote:Can't help with a PGM, but have you checked the reg/rect? They seem to be a bit of a weak spot - and from what I gather are often the downfall of the PGM. And is the battery good? They seem to like a healthy and fully charged battery.

They certainly do, I pulled out of a race last year with a terrible missfire (running total loss) after about 6 laps, back in the paddock the battery was showing 11.5 volts and it was fully charged before the race but a new battery fixed the problem.
And we saw a power increase (2bhp?) just with a new battery on another PGM-II'd bike which was running the charging circuit but had a totally shot (near zero volt) battery.

I wouldn't even think of running a bike up without a reg/rec on, all the grey import Honda's (though they're fine if treated well) have less than totally robust electrics, no reg/rec is just asking to melt stuff.
_________________
Please do not PM me technical questions, if you can't find it on the Forum start a thread


Last edited by fontyyy on Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

fontyyy wrote:...all the grey import Honda's (though they're fine if treated well) have less than totally robust electrics, no reg/rec is just asking to melt stuff.

Yeah, 'robust' like a 1970s Guzzi's...

I'd definitely be trying it with a very strong battery and checking the reg/ rect before changing the pgm too Paul. Might just be it? Relatively cheapie fix if so .
_________________
Still smoking...

But my problem is, is no spark and the whine from the pgm when the kill switch wires are made into a circuit. Rough running is not the problem.. yet!

The battery has a very happy 12.6volts, like I said, I'm not running the bloody thing, just trying to get a spark. No point running before you can swim or something.

And my 1976 Guzzi has perfect electrics, even down to the bizarre assortment of relays and solenoids inside the headlamp that operate high beam. Sometimes.


_________________
More **** two strokes than you can shake a **** stick at.

With you. Well that's my stock of NSR 'knowledge' exhausted I'm afraid. You'll need the hardcore Honda boys to step up.

Could anything be stopping the battery talking to the ignition circuit in any way at all though? My 21 wouldn't even think about starting without a good battery connection...

PGM-II's aren't bad at starting on just the stator power.
PGM-III's and PGM-IV's you've got zero chance of it kicking up without a tip top battery, you need to be running and bumping it and it'll still hate it, or (bloke who will remain anonymous) get it up on a paddock stand back wheel to back wheel with your Dad's Deauville on it's centre stand doing about 30mph and squirt easy start down the carbs.
_________________
Please do not PM me technical questions, if you can't find it on the Forum start a thread

Sounds like you may have klilled the PGM with the wiring things, since a whining PGM is a very unhappy PGM - there's no speakers in there!



I haven't seen the wiring diagram for an MC18, so these are best guesses:

The kill switch should provide an Earth to the PGM so it'll be live (or high) when 'open' and short to chassis (or low) when closed. I don't know which of these states the PGM needs to work. Have you tried it in both?

Have you checked for 12v at the coil input leads?

Have you got access to, and know how to use an osciloscope?
_________________
MC21SP Plaything
BMW F800GS Bumblebee
Triumph 9551 Daytona Big boys toy
FJ1100 Sporting relic
GTS1000 oddball

Hi Dave,

Looking at the wiring diagram, the switch is open for 'off' and closed for live. Its unusal as most bikes I've worked on, the switch is to earth. I have tried it in both ways, yes. There are two wires going to the switch, one is a feed from the fusebox and the other goes to the pgm so I guess the kill switch is a power switch for the pgm in effect.

The pgm and loom was sold to me untested, I'm hoping that I didnt kill it but fail to see how I could have done. Even before I created the circuit so dont think that could have killed it.

I'm waiting on the two I bought off yahoo Japan to arrive then I can continue.

I have access to an Oscilloscope, yes. We use it for checking inverters but recon it could be used for other purposes

Cheers
Paul
_________________
More **** two strokes than you can shake a **** stick at.

I was thinking you could verify the output of your pickups, then use it to scope the PGM wires to the coils, see if there are any pulses from that...
_________________
MC21SP Plaything
BMW F800GS Bumblebee
Triumph 9551 Daytona Big boys toy
FJ1100 Sporting relic
GTS1000 oddball

Well the pickups are working fine as they are running the other loom, as are the coils..
_________________
More **** two strokes than you can shake a **** stick at.

That's not what I said! I mean scope the pickups on the setup you have now, and then - assuming they are pulsing, scope the output of the PGM to see if it is triggering the coils...
_________________
MC21SP Plaything
BMW F800GS Bumblebee
Triumph 9551 Daytona Big boys toy
FJ1100 Sporting relic
GTS1000 oddball