I described my oiling strategy but no one commented so I'll run it by again.

I run premix , but instead of taking the oiling system off... hooked up a decomp lever and cable to the oiler

Yes , extra oiling on demand

and when the lever is not pulled, the oil pump err pumps almost no oil - (just enough to keep it from "burning up" .

Why?
_________________
MC21SP Plaything
BMW F800GS Bumblebee
Triumph 9551 Daytona Big boys toy
FJ1100 Sporting relic
GTS1000 oddball

I find it nice to coast down long hills (closed throttle) , Downshift with high rpm and closed throttle (Eng braking) , Long runs at WOT , Walks on the beach, TV pizza and beer.

It solves the "problem" that neither premix, or the pump can address. Lubercateing during closed throttle. Or are you one of those, "2 strokes don't suffer from lubercation problems" fellows?

Not at all, it's the achillies heel of two strokes, and the reason they suffer at the hands of the emmisions crack down.

However, I am one of those who believe Honda got the oil pump settings right, and raced with the pump doing my oiling for several seasons without any problems.

What makes you believe that the Honda R&D department couldn't do as good a job as you did in your shed?
_________________
MC21SP Plaything
BMW F800GS Bumblebee
Triumph 9551 Daytona Big boys toy
FJ1100 Sporting relic
GTS1000 oddball

I'm no NSR expert, but doesn't the pump have any links to anything other than simple throttle position? I thought all of the more modern autolube systems had links to RPM or Powervalve position or whatever too to ensure that oil delivery was adequate under all engine loads, revs, throttle positions etc. I really can't imagine Honda would let a machine out the door with a lubing system that would bring a heap of warranty claims? In my limited experience the NSR certainly uses a lot of 2T oil, so I really can't imagine the pump is inherently mean. And don't forget that modern oils are rather better than the oils the NSR motor was developed with.

I guess your system won't really do any harm, but wouldnt it be simpler to just trust the pump? Maybe do a survey and ask how many have suffered from lube failure when using the pump (assuming correct adjustment of course)? I have to say that personally I've never had any lube problems when using oem oil pumps on a pretty broad range of strokers.

Go on, free your self from anxiety and trust in the pump. It's really liberating


Wb


Last edited by wb on Fri May 16, 2008 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total

Blimey, I almost jumped to the defence of Mr Honda before you did then, Dave. I must be mellowing in my old age, lol

Wb

I realize those of you who hold the Honda Flag higher than most, will suffer from these hang ups, (the most)....

Like, If Mr Honda wanted the bike that way he would have Engineered it that way.....

Under this thinking there is no reason to mod, or upgrade any part on your bike because it was PERFECTLY DESIGNED, when it rolled off the floor.

I do appreciate the comments, but have found them to be more of a generalized "feeling" as to whether this is nessesary or worth while. If you could also comment on the issue........

When the throttle is closed, the motor IS RECEIVEING NEXT TO ZERO LUBERCATION. Whether premix or injector This mod solves that one specific situation.

The point was to liberate myself from argueablely the worst Engineering mis-step on the NSR -(the evil oiler ) It makes me chukkle when those who would dismiss --- a high rpm decel with closed throttle with next to zero oil getting to the motor ; as a non-issue. But suggest a full power dyno pull without any oil to these same fellows and they will jeer you for being Crazy.

O and Dave the Answer to why is $$$...
No doubt Honda has the abilitly to Make a proper oiling system, but the cost / benifit senario did not warrent the extra expenditures. GRANTED, it works (to some degree), But clearly not where Honda spent their R&D dollars.

Lol. As many of the chaps here will attest, I for one am hardly the world's No.1 Honda fan . But if you get your jollies from cruising down long hills on a closed throttle and using the engine braking of a 250 stroker while squirting in a little extra oil via the semi-disabled pre-mix set-up, then go for it.

Personally I can't see why you don't just use the autolube system and blip the throttle a bit on down shifts and other times when you perceive the autolube system might not be providing enough oil. Running premix on a road bike is just a pain in my experience. It can be useful to remove the oil pump etc on a track bike for the weight and engine clutter savings, but effectively running both systems at the same time just seems to be the worst of both worlds to me.

But, you know, whatever floats your yacht...

Wb

I find it nice to coast down long hills (closed throttle) , Downshift with high rpm and closed throttle (Eng braking) , Long runs at WOT , Walks on the beach, TV pizza and beer.

Don't forget the pizza and beer

There are other benifits to this system that make it much better than either of the "accepted" systems.

Consider during a seize, clearly the quicker you get the clutch in (often) the less the damage. Often before a piston sticks it will give signs... A good time to increase the oiling ratio.... Might make the difference between getting home without undue damage or having the flat bed taxi take you home.

WOT Runs... Once Pinned - increaseing the oil ratio is a must. Kart racing premix ratios as low as 13:1 are common!!!! The extra oil will greatly help to keep the motor together and won't even reduce the top speed by 3mph.

I get your point though, if it works its good enough...

Ok. which bit of 'raced for several seasons without a problem' did you not get?

I am a fan of any engineering man / woman / company which produces something worthy of praise. I think Lockheed did a fabuolous job on the C130 and the Tristar for instance. I've worked on both, and been impressed by both. I think BMW did a very good job on their E34 and E39 models. Both impress me with their ingenuity and engineering know how.

Likewise, the NSR is very well built and is something which impresses at very turn.

Why do you think that on a closed throttle the engine isn't providing enough lube? I have personally raced at tracks where I held flat out in top for 30 or 40 seconds, followed by deceleration to a fist gear hairpin. No siezure.

How long do you think any bike manufactuerer would keep their reputation if they sold bikes which died within six months? Ask Honda, they made the VF750 with it's "chocolate cams". That hurt them - a lot - and they knew that to compete in a global market you cannot produce sub standard goods and survive.

Ask Norton. Or BSA. Or Rover. Or any number of manufacturers who've gone to the wire becase they couldn't compete. Except Harley of course, and I've no idea why they're still in business!
_________________
MC21SP Plaything
BMW F800GS Bumblebee
Triumph 9551 Daytona Big boys toy
FJ1100 Sporting relic
GTS1000 oddball

Dave Ett wrote:
...Except Harley of course, and I've no idea why they're still in business!

Probably a tie-in with Lister Petter! Duff-duff-duff-duff-duff-duff-duff... and that's flat out!
_________________
Andy.
NSR-WORLD.COM

Please keep all responses to Forum posts on the Forum so that others may benefit.

Please DO NOT PM me for technical advice. My time is precious, and you will probably receive a faster response on the Forum anyway.

Check us out on Facebook! Please "like" our page!

Too True... but top fuel dragbikes run (exclusively) V-twin plants.

No I KNOW you're living on another planet.

A quote from this site:

http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2006/08/top-fuel-motorcycles-lesson-in.html

"Top fuel drag bikes cost in excess of US$80,000 (about Rs 36 lakh!) to build. They have four-cylinder supercharged engines that run on nitromethane, which is consumed at the rate of around 40 litres per one kilometre!"

And another quote from this site:

http://www.kingracing.com/topfuelbikes.html

"They have four cylinder purpose built engines, are supercharged, fuel injected, and consume over 15 gallons of the explosive fuel Nitromethane every mile"

But hey, you're American, we expect you to live in a bubble!

Anyway, enough about four strokes, back to your funky thoughts on oiling and why Honda got it wrong...
_________________
MC21SP Plaything
BMW F800GS Bumblebee
Triumph 9551 Daytona Big boys toy
FJ1100 Sporting relic
GTS1000 oddball

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mECux9IDud4&feature=related
JUST YOUR AVERAGE NITRO HARLEY



John Mancuso became IHRA's first Nitro Harley season champion in 1998 with his mid-six-second H-D. (Jeff Burk photo)

A brief conversation with former IHRA Nitro Harley World Champ John Mancuso revealed what constitutes the modern Nitro Harley motorcycle. Mancuso, with the exception of elapsed times and speeds, delivered the information on what he thought was the average make-up of one of these IHRA beasts.

In general, the wheelbase is 90 inches with the Harley engine ranging in size from 157 cubic inches to 175, the 700+ horsepower brought to earth by high gear only or a two-speed transmision. The nitro fuel floats right around 96% and the rear-tire size is 14x31.

Mancuso stated that the bikes are hauling ass, even at the half-way mark. His best eighth-mile elapsed time is a 4.17 at 178-mph with his best quarter-mile elapsed time being a sport's best 6.41. His teammate, Steve Stordeur, has the class' second best elapsed time with a 6.42.

There are pro Harley chassis builders. Mancuso and Stordeur's bikes were built by John Storace's Weekend Frame Company in Mineola, Texas. He also said that Bill Furr's Orangeburg Cycle in South Carolina will build you a turnkey Top Fuel Harley as will Race Visions in Buffalo, New York. - Chris Martin